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Author Topic: is zbrush cheating?  (Read 4512 times)

rellik420

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is zbrush cheating?
« on: January 30, 2009, 04:03:50 am »

i looked for some 3d pics earlier 2day. there were tons of amazing models and pics. but they all used zbrush. ive never used it but i know what it is. i just want some input on what u guys might think of it. i know im gettin pretty good at modeling,  but there is no way in hell i could compete with something made in z brush. let me know what u think.
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Suppastar

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Re: is zbrush cheating?
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2009, 04:52:03 am »

In a way, I mean I like building from scratch but if I was making a 20+ million polygon model to use for a normal map I sure as hell would use Z-Brush. A lot of video game designers are using Z-Brush now, it just makes their lives a lot easier.

Take Uncharted: Drakes Fortune, they used Z-brush for that game, the final model count for the High-poly was 20 Million, the low poly in-game version was a little over 30,000 polygons with hand painted textures made in Z-Brush. They got more detail (model and texture wise) for their models then they would have the traditional way.

More detail and less time = good business.
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hihosilver

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Re: is zbrush cheating?
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2009, 07:46:06 am »

short and simple, Zbrush is not cheating (in case you haven't heard of it, there's a very similar program called mudbox as well.)  It handles a ridiculous amount of polygons, while allowing you to sculpt.  The results can be amazing yes, but there are different uses.  One common use is simple sculpting where people use Zbrush to create amazingly high detailed models that they then render, or simply display as the sculpt.  Many many new games are beginning to use normal maps as well.  It's a next generation concept in the gaming industry, and you can use a high poly model from Zbrush and use it on top of a low poly model you've created to make a nice normal map which will give you the illusion of much more detail, which is very useful in games.

Zbrush/Mudbox are not cheating, they are simply useful tools.  Still, you cannot take a model straight from Zbrush and make an animated model out of it.  A lot of thought has to go into the creation and topology of the base mesh, etc.
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rellik420

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Re: is zbrush cheating?
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2009, 07:49:10 am »

i just downloaded the zbrush trial. its a great tool. but i do think its cheating. i messed with it for about 15 mins figuring out how to use it. i transformed the model im working on into this in a matter of minutes.

edit: both are rendered in ART.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2009, 07:56:41 am by rellik420 »
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rellik420

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Re: is zbrush cheating?
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2009, 07:55:45 am »

im not sure exactly what i mean by cheating. but i know most of my models take me a few hours to do. which im glad i do it that way cause im learning alot about it. i didnt know that was how it worked. i just think it takes all the hard work out of it. and i do agree it seems very usefull. i kinda wanted a few opinions of it b4 i even tried it. i think the technology will eventually phase out all the artwork. and thats not a good thing. but i do have to keep an opened mind about all the software if i ever want to get a job doing this kind of stuff. thanks for ur input. as always hiho ur very very informative.
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hihosilver

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Re: is zbrush cheating?
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2009, 04:11:47 pm »

The software makes the very high poly things you wish to do easier, yes, but in no way does it take out the originality or creativity.  Sure, it lets you control a ridiculous amount of polys without much lagging at all, and add small details with ease, but it doesn't fix any topology, instead it ends up a messy mesh.  Remember you still control the program, it's almost like virtual sculpting.

You cannot use Zbrush models for things like animations because the topology is awful.  On the other hand, you can use the high poly model to create a displacement map that you would then use on a model with good topology, but the model with good topology could not be created in Zbrush.

So yes, it makes some things easier, though to be good you still have to have the basic 3d skills.  Still, in my opinion making the tool easier to create the art frees you up a bit in the creativity department.  The creative and artistic control is still all in your hands!
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rellik420

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Re: is zbrush cheating?
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2009, 04:52:21 am »

so basically u can make your model save and import to zbrush. then make it a billion poly's. then export it back to anim8or (as that displacement map). and use it like a texture over your original model?

ps. sorry if im breaking any rules on this forum talking about other programs. i have tried a few other ones,  but nothing can beat this interface. hands down best modeling tool that ive tried.
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hihosilver

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Re: is zbrush cheating?
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2009, 05:25:50 am »

Basically, but, anim8or does not support displacement maps.  The thing about displacement maps is that they create actual geometry, or, change actual geometry.  So this wouldn't help with cutting down on speed, which is why people often times use normal maps (normal maps are a big thing in gaming right now too).  You can also create normal maps with zbrush or mudbox and use them on models, which is why a lot of people at the forums wish for normal map support.  Currently the best you could do is use the displacement map as a bumpmap in anim8or.
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xalener

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Re: is zbrush cheating?
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2009, 04:24:17 pm »

There's no such thing as cheating in the world of art, man.
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RnDr FOX

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Re: is zbrush cheating?
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2009, 05:22:24 pm »

yea don't look at as cheating look at it as a tool to help you achieve greater things with your models. I mean you made that model yourself. Now blender also has a sculptor. It is not as good as zbrush, but blender is free.

At the bottom is a goblin that I made, it started out as a sphere but I sculpted it into an almost 100,000 poly face. It doesn't have to be so high poly but the more multi-resolution layers you add the more high poly it will be but you can add greater detail. My goblin I believe has 6 or 7 multi-layers but I can't remember
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xalener

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Re: is zbrush cheating?
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2009, 12:11:30 am »

Zbrush can export in greyscale bump, right?
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hihosilver

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Re: is zbrush cheating?
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2009, 05:10:43 am »

Well, I believe its original intent is to export grayscale displacement maps, but they can be used for the exact same thing.
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thecolclough

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Re: is zbrush cheating?
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2009, 09:35:38 am »

is zbrush cheating?

ALL SOFTWARE EXCEPT ANIM8OR IS CHEATING!!!  >:(  all real anim8or users know that!



...

just kidding ;)
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