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Author Topic: Does anyone else model characters like me? I feel lonely  (Read 3344 times)

Kamagoi

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Does anyone else model characters like me? I feel lonely
« on: October 15, 2010, 07:08:22 pm »

So when I started using Anim8or for the first time last year I wanted to make human like
characters. However, everytime I would look for tutorials on youtube I was constantly disappointed by everyone always using a reference image, set it in the viewports, and use that as a guideline. Personally I never liked the idea of having the person done for you already. I understand that professionally, reference images are used for getting the details very accurate. I can't draw at all so drawing my own reference image was out of the question. To me, using reference images setup in the viewport is like having half of the work done for you. I have never used that method for creating a human character. Instead I just practiced modeling over and over again until I devised my own methods of character modeling. Im still not perfect but I just want to know if anyone else models without having reference images in the viewports. In my video all I do is import an image of a character that someone drew for me and asked if I could model and animate it. All I do is look at the picture and start modeling. You'll see what i mean. And I mean no disrespect for anyone who models with reference images in viewports. It just seems like nobody out there creates characters from scratch (no disrespect). Search for Kamagoi4521 on youtube and check out the High poly character modeling video on my channel. Im not finished with it yet as I am editing the other parts of the video.
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Kyle

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Re: Does anyone else model characters like me? I feel lonely
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2010, 08:59:06 am »

Refs are important to an extent regardless of who drew them up. I understand the need to be able to claim it as your own, but you still should use something as a foundation. Even if it's a pic of your own head/body.  And the work is hardly done for you, a lot of people can draw, but translating something complex into 3 dimensional shapes is another thing entirely.

Also, if you want to be able to claim you made a character from scratch, doesn't borrowing a design from a friend kind of defeat the purpose? permission or not its still not your design.
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kreator

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Re: Does anyone else model characters like me? I feel lonely
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2010, 09:57:41 am »

Kamagoi: I think I know what you mean, I did a graphics course at college once whilst I was in between jobs and I became pretty despondent as most of the course was uplifting images from the internet or scanning from magazines then re-arranging it all in photoshop!!

I argued that it was not original but was pooh poohed over that.

Unfortunately in this day and age thats what it has come to.
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$imon

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Re: Does anyone else model characters like me? I feel lonely
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2010, 01:42:46 pm »

I don't know what you have against using reference images Kamagoi, I see no downside to it! They are just guidelines you use when modeling something in 3d - I don't agree that half the work is already done for you, a 2d image is not a 3d object , as kyle said, thats the hard part. It's just a tool to get closer to where you want to end up. If you don't use references what usually happens is things get disproportionate or just don't look right.

So there are a lot of upsides for using reference images. For a hardcore 3d artist, creating/using reference images is just part of the skillset required to fully express your creativity & just a step between mental concept and finished 3d work.

kreator: I completely agree - for a graphics course you expect to be taught how to make graphics , not make a collage! haha..



There is more debate on using premade 3d models in your artwork, but this is also just a tool to get where you want - the end result might look just as good, but for some less satisfying or authentic, for others it is a lifesaver to get your creativity onto the 3d canvas quicker.

It's all about what yůu want to do with 3d and what works best for you. Reference images can be a tool to achieve that - but its your choice to use it or not!



To me, 3d is about creating something I like, and in doing that I find that using reference images greatly improves the output. Setting up good references will speed up the modeling process & will require you to have to 'fix' things less later on. It also works to get my whole idea down before starting a project , to not end up somewhere halfway not knowing where to go.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2010, 01:45:07 pm by $imon »
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Raxx

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Re: Does anyone else model characters like me? I feel lonely
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2010, 02:54:53 pm »

Hm, to me references are completely important for new designs whether it's characters, buildings, or objects. I find that if I don't draw up my own, or use someone else's, my models would become too generic and uninteresting. It's much easier going over a drawing and adding more creative elements or totally changing the design rather than trying it on a fully-made 3D model.

However, over time I've come to be able to rely on only a single reference image by adopting the box modeling technique. No more requiring a front and side view and switching back and forth adding edges and filling holes.** I don't even need to put reference images in my viewport. If you're not box modeling all ready, you should look it up since it could save you a lot of hassle on the reference image side of things, especially for character designs.

I almost always draw my own references, though. Yeah I'm not the best but I'm the only one that'll be seeing them, so what does it matter if it's not professional-level? I'd rather get my designs out on paper and keep them there rather than lose them later.

**Unfortunately this means Anim8or's no good for me anymore with box modelling due to its clumsy controls (compared to other software--too much clicking and going all over the place vs just modelling). Sorry guys!
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Kamagoi

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Re: Does anyone else model characters like me? I feel lonely
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2010, 05:19:12 pm »

Yeah sorry but its not that I hate reference images but you are right $imon, my work could probably be done more faster. If you see my video you'll notice that I constantly keep tweaking on parts of the body until they are just right. When I introduced myself to character modeling, I didn't want to do what everyone else is doing.

My inspiration came from Final Fantasy The Spirits Within. I found out that they didn't use any reference images to make their characters in the movie. And because I cannot draw to save my life, I decided to just practice modeling like that.

However I bought a book that describes methods of character modeling and anatomy. Through that useful information I found that if you study good techniques, then you won't have to rely on reference images.

But I agree that there is no downside to reference images. Someone using a reference image will probably finish faster than I would, but it's just the way I do things. It just seems like nobody else models like that anymore.
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Gyperboloid

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Re: Does anyone else model characters like me? I feel lonely
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2010, 05:22:08 pm »


**Unfortunately this means Anim8or's no good for me anymore with box modelling due to its clumsy controls (compared to other software--too much clicking and going all over the place vs just modelling). Sorry guys!

Hmm... I have read a lot about comparing 3D packages, especially about "these" popular and since I have never used "these others" I can't understand: is there any button there that sais " make sooper-dooper model " ? :D ;)

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Raxx

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Re: Does anyone else model characters like me? I feel lonely
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2010, 09:19:35 pm »

No Gyperboloid, there're tools that are simple and efficient to use, such as a tweak tool where you click and drag points, edges, or faces around rather than having to select and then move, rotate the view around by holding alt and clicking (or whatever hotkey), symmetrical editing removes the need to keep mirroring all the time, knife tool where instead of dragging across faces to cut them you just click on the starting point or area on an edge, then click on another, then click on another for more control without worrying about if you cut something behind it, there's proportional editing, etc. Just those tools or "features" I mentioned probably save me about 30-40% of the time I'd have spent if using Anim8or, and help me make the work look even better.

Most programs have them...they're basic things. I won't even go into the animation part of it...

Example: Move a face

Anim8or: Click the face button, click the select button, click on the face, press T to select the edges, click the move button, drag around to move wherever. Click arc rotate (or Ctrl-r), rotate around, click arc rotate (or ctrl-r) to disable. Drag to move. 10 Actions

Another program: Click the tweak tool or press the hotkey. Click and drag the face around to move wherever, hold alt while dragging around to rotate the view, click and drag the face around to move wherever. 4 Actions
« Last Edit: October 16, 2010, 09:32:42 pm by Raxx »
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ENSONIQ5

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Re: Does anyone else model characters like me? I feel lonely
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2010, 09:48:26 am »

Personally, I have never used an on-screen reference image to model anything, but I always create physical pencil-and-paper sketches first.  3D modelling in something like Anim8or will always be a tedious, technical process, and it is quite difficult, at least for myself, to maintain any sort of artistic and creative flow while involved in this process.  There are a few sculpting-type programs about that attempt to address this (eg. Sculptris) and although they are quite enjoyable to use I have generally been unimpressed with the quality of the resultant wireframes.  Therefore I find it best to separate the two processes chronologically, creating the ideas, forms, storyboards etc on paper and, when I am happy with what I have, transferring these into the 3D medium.

Although as I said I have never actually imported one of these sketches as a reference image, the vast majority of my subjects tend to be inorganic and geometric in nature.  I have no doubt that on-screen reference images would be almost vital for good edge-looping, required for good organic modelling.

Referring to reference images is just one more tool in the animator's toolbox and should be considered a viable, worthwhile option, where appropriate, but if you prefer to work without them then that is, of course, your prerogative.
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Arik_the_Red

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Re: Does anyone else model characters like me? I feel lonely
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2010, 11:04:28 pm »

I, myself, like to model things a variety of ways.

If you mean to say that you don't explore a subject at all when developing it, then I would be a bit dubious about your claim. You will find that artists of any medium are always researching their material, subject matter, etc. If modeling/creating an artistic endeavor, it is nearly impossible NOT to research the subject matter. An artist who wishes to paint a lion, for example, has to familiarize him/herself with lions - study their form, movement, etc., in order to better draft his/her own lion-image... even if the image being created is a pose/scene that is original.

As I develop things for my Steampunk work, I am referring to online art and photos because I want to capture something based upon an existing style./concept, and I find that doing research of the subject always helps me to develop my own ideas.

When doing a character - if I am making something of my own design, I generally work solely from scratch, utilizing sketches if I need, or just modeling in the program from my head. If I am modeling someone else' work, of course I refer to examples of their art.... prime example was when I was modeling Piglet from the Winnie-the-Pooh Disney work. I referred to numerous images from Disney to see that I was features and getting proportions right.

When I am modeling items, buildings, etc., I like to reference things that are akin to my own ideas, because I want to be sure I have the concept flowing consistently.

As to technical aspects of modeling, when I am modeling characters I do refer to examples of wireframes, etc., because I want to be sure that I am getting the mechanics right for when and if I intend to put the work to animation.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 11:11:02 pm by Arik_the_Red »
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rellik420

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Re: Does anyone else model characters like me? I feel lonely
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2010, 04:45:59 pm »

i think its better to at least start out using reference images. this way you can get a good idea of how to model the anatomy the right way. sooner or later you wont need a reference because you have learned how to model a human head and body so you can make models off of your dome piece (your head).

i can usually never find good reference models anyway. so really you can have 1 male reference image and you can make 100 different models off of that one reference image. you can get a basic shape and tweak and alter it to however you want you can make aliens, cyborgs, and multiple fantasy creatures.

there is also a benefit to using reference images. say that i come to you with an idea about a model i want done. i can verbally explain it to you or i can draw it out to you. its more beneficial to me if i have some concept work on paper and you model my work and have it come to life.

i think it might be best to learn both ways. how to successfully create models from reference images (even limited. try making something with only a side or a front view) and making something from your imagination. you will benefit yourself with both methods.
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