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Author Topic: Mission Backup Earth - the TV Series (hopefully)  (Read 12807 times)

dwsel

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Re: Trans-Neptune - the Web Series
« Reply #30 on: December 21, 2011, 09:26:36 pm »

Nice cans, by the way... have you ever tried to sell them on turbosquid or somesuch?

I haven't got a lot of models around, so I've never thought of selling anything. I consider myself quite weak modeller.


Heh heh... 'Nice cans'!  That's a phrase I never thought I'd read on this forum!  Sorry, dumb sense of humour.

You're welcome :D

Excellent work dwsel, I will certainly incorporate these into the scene.

Just a slight tweak of key location, after more looks on the reference - just before it'll be too late to switch models. Textures the same as in the *.zip pack.

The overhead lights are casting soft shadows in the scene, the hard shadows on the floor are actually being cast by the sun through the triangular windows to the camera's right.  This external light is a remnant of the external scene; the internal scene was originally a copy of the external scene to ensure everything lined up correctly.  At this stage I don't know whether final shots will be daytime or nightime, when that is finalised the entire lighting setup will be adjusted accordingly.

For visualization works I still give sunlight slightly soft shadows. It's a bit slower but it's not that disturbing. Possibly regular person watching a movie wouldn't noticed difference either, but eye sharpens with experience and people working with 3d would spot it easily and express it into comments questioning quality of whole work...
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Arik_the_Red

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Re: Trans-Neptune - the Web Series
« Reply #31 on: December 21, 2011, 10:31:15 pm »

Tony, have you ever looked to see how Triton's day/night cycle works?
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ENSONIQ5

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Re: Trans-Neptune - the Web Series
« Reply #32 on: December 22, 2011, 02:20:02 am »

dwsel - agreed re the soft shadows for sunlight, in this case it has been left hard for rendering speed while the lighting setup remains unfinished.

Arik - Much like Earth's Moon, Triton is orbitally locked to Neptune so one hemisphere always faces Neptune.  It's orbital period is a bit over 5 Earth days, so effectively it would experience a day/night cycle of the same period.  Due to it's (and Neptune's) orbital inclination it does experience seasons, at the solstices the pole experiencing 'winter' would not see much of the Sun at all, and then only very low on the horizon.  Neptune itself would also occlude Triton on a 5-daily basis, this would be particularly prevalent at each equinox and would mean the Neptune-facing side would not see the Sun very much at all.

If I have time I might build this as a script-based animation to visualise what's going on, the angles and occlusion data are difficult to visualise.
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ENSONIQ5

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Re: Trans-Neptune - the Web Series
« Reply #33 on: January 28, 2012, 03:54:07 am »

Work is continuing (slowly) on improving the interiors of the Triton base.  Here are a couple of WIPs showing Dwsel's cans  in the galley and some file cabinets and gas tank/compressor/whatever in the control room 'north corridor'.  All modelling (and basic UV mapping) in Anim8or, complex UV mapping in Lithunwrap, texture processing in Corel Draw/Photo Paint and rendering in Carrara.

I have returned to the orange/tan walls for the control room to warm things up a bit, but with a revised texture.  The galley walls remain concrete but they might change to the same padded look down the track.  Above each door is an exit sign with temperature and pressure displays, these can change to red during lockdown.  The tabletop laminex has been revised to a lighter colour with coffee cup rings and photos from home have been stuck on the wall.  The District 9 poster was just a bit of fun, depending on copyright etc. it will probably have to be replaced with a different image.  There are still gaps on the walls which will be filled with maybe a calendar, some sort of roster sheet, maybe some kids drawings from nieces or nephews, I dunno, still working on ideas here (help appreciated).

The lighting has not been finalised and probably won't be until we start filming the live action, as both will need to match as closely as possible.  Light AO only has been included in the renders, not full secondary lighting, in the interests of render speed (about 2 minutes each).  The only post-render processing was some tone equalisation and a bit of flare around the lights.

As always, contributions and comments/crits etc. of any sort are welcome!
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dwsel

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Re: Trans-Neptune - the Web Series
« Reply #34 on: January 28, 2012, 03:21:00 pm »

Yes, probably poster won't pass... I think I could make a poster like "Humanity/SpaceTec wants YOU!": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Unclesamwantyou.jpg but I would need a render of astronaut suit (the kind will be used in the production) with finger pointing towards camera for that task.

Here are my suggestions on the first image:

- tables are burned out totally, they could have darker texture or I imagine anisotropic brushed metal like on the overpaint on the top
(examples:
http://www.unifycommunity.com/wiki/index.php?title=Anisotropic_Highlight_Shader
http://www.inka3d.com/examples/BrushedMetal.html
http://udn.epicgames.com/Three/rsrc/Three/AnisotropicLighting/brushedmetal.jpg
http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=160644&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20
maps:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sightrays/2249132981/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sightrays/2249068551/
http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-10386262/stock-photo-a-perfect-tiling-seamless-brushed-metal-texture.html )
and directional brushed metal on the leg.

- random patches of dirt on in the grooves on the floor (maybe a little bit more in the corners)

- metal reflections on the keys of cans (a bit more contrast), tops may be plainly painted with matte white like now

- walls in strategic places beveled and more variety (procedural maybe) in the textures. It can be especially seen on the second image where there's a closeup of wall in the front plane and it just screams - 'I have sharp edge and low texture resolution!'

- minor problem of texture filtering on the floor on second image, though I'm aware that's only preview, so things like that can happen with lower AA


Do props like coffee machine are also considered for the kitchen? I could make something like that.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2012, 03:24:44 pm by dwsel »
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ENSONIQ5

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Re: Trans-Neptune - the Web Series
« Reply #35 on: January 29, 2012, 05:57:13 am »

Thanks for the feedback dwsel, much appreciated.  I am also waiting for somebody to claim the suit design so I can fit out the suiting-up area near the main airlock.

Re the points you have made:

- Table texture: anisotropic textures are notoriously hard to simulate.  I have tried this before in Carrara with limited success, and it involved a very complex (slow) shader setup.  Since at this stage I have no idea what shots (if any) will actually be taken in the galley I am reluctant to overload the renderer unnecessarily.  The galley could just be background, glimpsed from the control room through the open doorway, with no actual close-up shots.

The overcooked texture fault in the previous render was due to an over-bright lighting setup resulting from the large number of overhead lights.  I have adjusted this, though again the lighting setup is not yet finalised as it needs to match the live shots (and vice-versa).

The table leg and seat base material has also been revised.

- The floor texture has been revised to make it look less pristine.  Again, as it is unlikely that the floor will be seen in the final shots, I am reserving further work until the shot schedule is complete.

- The cans were actually a dull aluminium in the previous shots, the flat white appearance was the result of the uniform soft lighting (that's why photographers choose this lighting setup!).  I have revised the material a bit and lowering the overall light level also served to improve the metallic appearance.  I have also revised the key colour to be more metallic, but again this is not really apparent due to the flat, diffuse lighting.

- I have revised some of the wall edges, bevelling where appropriate (and where it won't mess up the UV mapping) and smoothing in other cases.  Whether this is sufficient or whether the UV map requires rejigging depends again on the shooting schedule.  With so much to do I can't spend much time fixing things that won't be seen.  This is true of the wall texture resolution as well, if a shot does show a section of wall in foreground I will revise the texture for that part only, so rendering time does not suffer.

- The floor texture issue in the second render above is a moire effect, caused by interference between two dissimilar patterns.  This will be reduced in the final renders with full AA and render accuracy settings.

Re additional props, absolutely the more the merrier.  I really need to move on to other rooms in the base (airlock, corridor & hub, habitat etc.) as they have been mentioned in the existing storyboard, and the control room needs more work as well, particularly since that's where the bulk of the action happens.

EDIT

The seat texture and shape was always a place holder and it always annoyed me, had to redevelop them.  The texture will need dirtying up a bit.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2012, 11:25:01 am by ENSONIQ5 »
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Modeler_in_the_Myst

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Re: Trans-Neptune - the Web Series
« Reply #36 on: January 31, 2012, 09:03:01 pm »

In contrast to the smears and coffee rings on the table surfaces, the seat cushions look too clean  in my opinion.
It also makes them look rather samey.
EDit: *blush* re-read your post, yeah, I see now your planning to change that. All right then.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2012, 10:55:26 pm by Modeler_in_the_Myst »
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$imon

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Re: Trans-Neptune - the Web Series
« Reply #37 on: January 31, 2012, 10:29:05 pm »

Hey Ensoniq.. I like the tables a lot better now, but I have to agree that the seats do not match too well. They look a bit like they are taken from a 70's diner instead of a space station 200 years from now.
I know you're going a bit for a used- and nothing-too-fancy look, but I think you should try to incorporate some elements that are futuristic. Maybe I've watched some movies that are a bit over-futuristic, but I think the designs would be a bit more stylized and futuristic looking. (maybe a bit in the direction of http://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/16600000/Moon-sam-rockwell-16677357-500-208.jpg from Moon? )
I guess what I'm trying to say is that your materials look a bit rough and heavy, whereas if it all had to be shipped billions of miles from earth, I think they would design things a bit smarter using lighter materials  instead of heavy cushioned couches, rough metals for walls, heavy oven/stoves? etc. And maybe a bit more lighter, slicker and compacter things that have been invented in the 200 years from now?

I like the addition of some personal belongings on the wall, but the pictures look a bit forced.. I'm sure you were going to change that still though.

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Modeler_in_the_Myst

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Re: Trans-Neptune - the Web Series
« Reply #38 on: January 31, 2012, 10:46:31 pm »

One possible source of inspiration for a good 'look' for a space outpost is the Sean Connery movie, Outland. Ignoring the primitive computers and 70's fashion, it really looks how I personally would expect a space outpost to look, gritty and functional, like an oil rig.
A place to work, not to live.
A little detail but noticeable all the same is to maybe change the inside lip of the mugs to a smoother curve. Right now it looks too sharp. The plate might also benefit from a few more polygons or a subdivision.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2012, 10:48:15 pm by Modeler_in_the_Myst »
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ENSONIQ5

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Re: Trans-Neptune - the Web Series
« Reply #39 on: February 01, 2012, 07:54:32 am »

Thanks guys, all very good points.  As far as possible the Triton base will have been constructed from locally sourced materials, this being by far the cheapest way to construct something like this.  The walls of the 'bunker' section of the base, where these rooms are, are made from a concrete-type material, possibly made from mixing carbon fibres (produced from the hydrocarbon-rich surface layers that give Triton it's pinkish hue) with water (also abundant in frozen form) that has been chemically modified to raise the melting temperature.  Water/fibre based concrete has been shown to have properties eminently suitable to construction of this type; it's crushing resistance is not as strong as concrete but its tensile strength is significantly better (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pykrete).

I totally agree re the interior fittings being quite heavy and I dithered on this point considerably before committing to these models.  While we are trying to stick to 'science-fact' rather than sci-fi as far as possible with this series, it is important that the audience understand the industrial nature of the base.  The image from Moon looks to me like a present-day dentist's office... while this may well be the industrial look of the future it doesn't convey the concept of 'industrial' at all.  I based the design concepts for the galley equipment from those facilities on modern naval and commercial ships, my thinking was that this sort of equipment must be extremely reliable since replacement would be astronomically expensive.  I found it very difficult to combine 'futuristic' + 'well used' + 'lightly made' + 'robust & reliable' so I pretty much fell back on well used and reliable, these being the most prominent points in the design brief.

Regarding the seat, although to a certain extent I wouldn't expect seats to change all that much over time (since human backsides will pretty much stay the same in that period) I agree regarding materials and construction techniques.  Possibly the seat fabric would have been shipped without stuffing, the padding being produced locally from expanded hydrocarbon-sourced plastic foam.  In this case the cushioning might follow a far more basic design rather than the current upholstered look.  I will revise the cushioning shortly, I have an idea that might work ok.

The pictures on the walls are a start, really.  The plan is to put many more things on the walls, like kids drawings, posters, calendars, cartoons, whatever; the sort of thing people stick on the walls to remind them of home.  The problem is the time it takes to construct and map this sort of stuff is incredibly restrictive, the existing photos represent about 5 or 6 hours of work.  The shooting schedule has not yet been finalised and it could well be that there are no actual shots in the galley area at all (its original idea was to show 'more rooms' beyond the control room, basically just background detail).  There are other areas I need to move on to, I figured I'd rearrange and add more details as required by the shots... if it won't be seen there's no point modelling it!

I remember Outland well (with the explosive head-swells!), unfortunately there's not a lot of interior imagery available.  The design inspiration for much of the other interior spaces is probably most like the Nostromo from Alien, though perhaps less deliberately oppressive and 'drippy'.  You're quite right re the integrity of the cup and plate MITM, these models were originally only going to be seen high on a shelf so the accuracy/speed balance was a bit heavy on the 'speed' side.  I will replace these with finer models, and probably with a metallic rather than ceramic appearance.

Sorry about the text wall, I have been working on nothing else for a couple of months now and it seems I can carry on about it indefinitely!!  Thanks again for the feedback and I'll have some revised images up soon.
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ENSONIQ5

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Re: Trans-Neptune - the Web Series
« Reply #40 on: February 03, 2012, 09:19:59 am »

Revised upholstery method.  Crockery models revised for greater integrity, material still ceramic at this stage due to similar mug seen in live action footage, may be changed later.  More live action is being started soon along with shooting schedules so at this stage I am moving on to other rooms.
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Modeler_in_the_Myst

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Re: Trans-Neptune - the Web Series
« Reply #41 on: February 03, 2012, 03:00:35 pm »

Ooh, I like it. Maybe make the walls darker so the seats stand out more, lightening up the door a little as well for greater contrast, but now it looks MUCH more unified.

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dwsel

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Re: Trans-Neptune - the Web Series
« Reply #42 on: February 06, 2012, 07:40:41 pm »

Re additional props, absolutely the more the merrier.  I really need to move on to other rooms in the base (airlock, corridor & hub, habitat etc.) as they have been mentioned in the existing storyboard, and the control room needs more work as well, particularly since that's where the bulk of the action happens.

A lamp for bedroom/living area.
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Arik_the_Red

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Re: Mission Backup Earth - the TV Series (hopefully)
« Reply #43 on: April 04, 2012, 05:07:13 am »

Well, folks... in a regroup on this project... and name has changed to "Mission Backup Earth"....

Check this! Ensoniq5's work on the interior control room of the Triton Base... combined with a rough attempt of incorporating a live actor by one of our other team specialists.

&feature=player_embedded

Yes, things are a bit distorted, but I think it's really fun how he's brought her into the scene for a rough go.

NOTE! The entire scene is 3D, modelled in anim8or and finished in Carrara... only the girl herself is "live action".
« Last Edit: April 04, 2012, 05:09:09 am by Arik_the_Red »
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ENSONIQ5

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Re: Mission Backup Earth - the TV Series (hopefully)
« Reply #44 on: April 04, 2012, 09:44:58 am »

Hannu does some amazing composition work, hey Arik!  Great to see some of these otherwise sterile shots starting to come to life.  I've let Hannu know that I can quickly render out stills with camera angles more closely matching the live action, rather than slicing and dicing the backgrounds.

dwsel: Sorry for taking so long to respond!  Thanks for the lamp model, it will be put to good use once the rest of the base is modelled.  The current priority is modelling the exterior and bridge interior of the interplanetary transport ship, so we can deliver the shots required for the trailer.  Pop over to the Mission Backup Earth page on Wreckamovie ( http://www.wreckamovie.com/missionbackupearth ) to see the current task lists, all contributions are gratefully received (and will be credited).
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