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Author Topic: Joan of Arc  (Read 7748 times)

KyleSan

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Joan of Arc
« on: August 05, 2013, 04:50:38 pm »

Hello Anim8or Community,

Im new to the forums and have lately been taking Anim8or very seriously. I did the usual beginner thing and tried tutorials and read the forums and all that. I've recently done the very popular "Joan of Arc" Tutorial and completed the modelling. The next stage of course is the texturing but before I continue I want to make sure that the model has been scrutinized by more experienced eyes. Please offer your CC and opinions. Also, please pay special attention to the edgeloops on the face. I intend to animate with this model once the texturing is done and I would appreciate any insight you have into edge loops. I'm here to learn.

The attached picture was scanline rendered.

Thanks in advance! Great team you guys have got going here.
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$imon

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Re: Joan of Arc
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2013, 07:26:58 pm »

Hello KyleSan,

Good to see you're taking on a new level of modeling, the Joan of Arc tutorial is a classic, and still great for learning the basics of edge looping.

As far as the model goes that you've posted here, the shapes look nice; her body is a little disproportionate in places, but the tutorial doesn't really go for realism in that sense. You could round out the arms and legs a bit more, they appear a bit square in places.

I've also posted some suggestions for your edgelooping (see attachment)
As I'm sure the tutorial stressed, it is important to keep all polies squared, you don't want any triangles or pentagonal shapes. I marked these areas in red in the image, and proposed a fix on the right; this usually means either adding a loop, 'closing' two loops together, or in this case connecting loops from one triangle to another.
Make sure to check your whole model for triangles or other weird shaped polygons and try to get rid of them smartly (usually it is good to delete a loop rather than adding one; use the least amount of points as necessary to create the shape you need.)

Also make sure that all the loops around an animatable area are full loops. This means that around the eyes every loop should go all the way around the eye and connect to itself. Have another look at the areas in the blue circles and the outside corners of the eyes.

Good attempt, and I hope you can keep learning; it's a fun stage in 3d modeling because it improves your models hugely.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2013, 07:30:59 pm by $imon »
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davdud101

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Re: Joan of Arc
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2013, 09:40:54 pm »

I FINALLY see what an actually edge 'loop' is!! Could someone explain it in more detail? Maybe message me?
Really nice model though, KyleSan! Hope to see some awesome stuff in the future!
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CrashDrive

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Re: Joan of Arc
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2013, 03:45:00 am »

Your overall model is looking really good. I'm sure you can appreciate the work that goes into 
that kind of modelling. Welcome to the Anim8or forums.
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KyleSan

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Re: Joan of Arc
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2013, 05:03:28 am »

Ah, Im glad the forum is up and running again.
$imon I attached a picture of the face redone. Is it more of what you had in mind?

I also went ahead and textured the face. Any tips anyone would have to maybe improve the texture? Also, I used a bumpmap to try make her eyebrows not look so flat, but I'm not sure if I'm happy with the results though... any input would be appreciated.

Thanks Crashdrive and davdud101 for the kind words.
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cooldude234

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Re: Joan of Arc
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2013, 02:35:11 pm »

I prefer the first face (the non textured one). It looks a lot less erm, creepy.
But I really love the first pic you posed, lots of fine clean details in the model and it makes it look very nice.
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KyleSan

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Re: Joan of Arc
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2013, 04:15:31 am »

Hi, cooldude234. Thanks! I wish I could take credit but seeing as its a tutorial that would be inappropriate. But no worries, as soon as Ive squeezed all the learning I can out of this project I'll definately be posting something origional.

Creepy you say? Could it be because she doesn't have hair in this picture?
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cooldude234

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Re: Joan of Arc
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2013, 04:50:12 am »

So the first model isn't yours?

Also it looks creepy because the shape of the head and the proportion of the eyes (shape VS proportion of both really).

It is possible to exaggerate parts of the human anatomy without making it look bad or creepy. But you have to reconfigure other parts. It's easy to make eyes big and look good when the rest of the face is less detailed and extremely simplified. This is because your brain doesn't see any of the fine details that would be present on a normal looking face.
It's a little hard to explain and I'm probably too tired to try but its along those lines.
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KyleSan

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Re: Joan of Arc
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2013, 04:55:57 am »

I get what youre trying to say. No the 1st model is mine, I just followed a tutorial in making it. Having a good look at it I see that her eyelids dont cover enough of the eye, could this maybe be the problem? - making the eyes look all bulgy. I'll work on it and get back to you.
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KyleSan

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Re: Joan of Arc
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2013, 06:29:49 am »

Please excuse the double post.

I had a look at the eye situation and found a couple things out.

I didn’t do my research for eye references efficiently enough so I remodelled the eye. Please have a look guys and let me know what you think. Practice makes perfect and I'm here to learn. The shape if the eye was way out and also the size of the iris. I tried to refit the eye to look proportionate to the face.

I attached a picture of the old eye vs the new eye.

Thanks guys! loving the new emoticons ;D :P
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cooldude234

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Re: Joan of Arc
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2013, 06:53:22 am »

Looks much much better. However still not keen on the shape of the head (in my opinion).
Keep at it though this looks like it's progressing well  ;D
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johnar

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Re: Joan of Arc
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2013, 08:16:03 am »

Hello KyleSan.
 Kudos for your effort so far, and welcome.  :)
  Joan of arc is a classic tutorial and yours is coming along really well.
 I  like the updated eye moreso than the first. but that 'tear duct' bit in the eye, looks a little large to me.
 maybe the second eye with the first tear duct (size) would be worth trying. What do you think...?
 Keep up the good work.   ;)
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KyleSan

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Re: Joan of Arc
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2013, 10:19:31 am »

cooldude234, thanks for the input. With all the CC it just keeps looking better and better. I see what you mean about the head. When using the reference pictures provided with the tutorial you kind of shift your mind to thinking that those shapes are okay, but after some reflection you come to see that it is a very unbelievable shape for a head. Im having another look at the shape and after some remodelling I'll give another update.

johnar, thanks for the welcoming. I did some googleing and realized that the previous shape of the tear duct would only be applicable if she had a tear duct infection lol. I revised it and reshaped it. Struggling to get it to look like the real thing but I attached an update of the progress so far.

I also changed the eye texture to something more realistic, a new iris and some subtle vein textures. Im a bit at odds with if the vein texture is enough... When playing around with the texture and adding more veins she looks more hungover than what I had origionally anticipated haha.

Its great to have such experienced anim8ors helping me along. Thanks for the input.
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johnar

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Re: Joan of Arc
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2013, 12:13:31 pm »

nice one on the tear ducts KyleSan, they look about perfect, but, (I'm 'nearly being picky here),
 the colour sems a litle bit too pink. (imho)
 I just had a close look at my own in the mirror, they're actually quite red and wet. lol. No, not hungover at all.
 Maybe just a bit more 'specular' value in the material editor, and a bit more redish.?

 I did the joan of arc tut a few years ago now, and mine never looked nearly as good as this one. Actually, didn't even completely finish it. I know that modelling is not my strong point, (especially organic), and will one day need to sit down and learn more. Will probly hav another crack at joan.  If i can get my next attempt to look anywhere near this good i will be quite the happy chappy.  :)
  Your 'studiousness' is obvious,  ;),  so well done sir and awesome job so far.
 
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KyleSan

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Re: Joan of Arc
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2013, 01:22:09 pm »

Thanks for the input johnar. I appreciate the vote of confidence. I've running through your youtube channel and found your video of Paul McCartney excellent. The lip-syncing is flawless. I'll be needing your, and the other members, opinions sometime in the future, because once I'm satisfied with the results of the face, I'll be animating her. I've recoloured her tear ducts and added a bit more of a spec value.

I've tried modifying the shape of the face somehow to make her look better, but with every try she just ends up looking like a man haha. I'll keep at it and maybe get some results soon.
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