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Author Topic: Figure Editor: Simultaneously Add, Lengthen, Rotate Bones  (Read 20229 times)

johnar

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Re: Figure Editor: Simultaneously Add, Lengthen, Rotate Bones
« Reply #30 on: April 09, 2015, 12:33:38 am »

Really nice. Really, really nice.
 
 Over the moon right now, so pleased to see Anim8or reaching these new milestones.
  I'm imagining this type of fast-select mode going on in the sequence editor ... lol....shivers down
me spine.....who could resist..
  Massively awesome stuff steve. Wicked.
  I'm all for the suggestions from neirao and raxx, regards default bone limits.
 I got a bit carried away when first trying 1170, and whipped up a 12 legged blob with total 140
bones. Didnt take long with the new 'quick draw'.
 But, giving each bone a value of movement did take quite some time...lol
 A default of free all bones would be 1 answer, but then of course, all bones with no limits is not always a good thing.
 I'm wondering, and hopeing not to confuse the issue, but could something like the image below be an option?

 Edit. After a closer look, the command 'apply to all' and 'apply to selected', would probably need to ignore the Orientation (PYR) settings...
 Another Edit: Not so well arranged in the picture i posted. If something like this could be implemented, the 2 new boxes/options would want to be placed directly under the x,y and z value boxes, to show more clearly that the only thing being applied to other bones is the rotation limits.
 (or maybe it should say, ''apply limits to selected bones'', and 'apply limits to all bones"
« Last Edit: April 09, 2015, 12:45:16 am by johnar »
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Steve

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Re: Figure Editor: Simultaneously Add, Lengthen, Rotate Bones
« Reply #31 on: April 09, 2015, 01:00:20 am »

nemyax: OK I've experimented a bit with using the Shift key in Add Bones mode so you can orient/scale bones by click-dragging on their tips. It works fairly well so I'll include it in the next drop.

I don't know how distinguish between the start of a bone and the tip of it's parent though.

johnar and others: Yes, this is a nice idea. I'll look into ways to add it.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2015, 01:02:37 am by Steve »
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neirao

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Re: Figure Editor: Simultaneously Add, Lengthen, Rotate Bones
« Reply #32 on: April 09, 2015, 01:49:19 am »

cool,
time ago i create and  posted this Tool for download:

http://www.anim8or.com/smf/index.php?topic=2921.0

and send this:

only for refresh(and ispiration)  8), my full ideas list here, somethigs Steve has implemented!
http://www.anim8or.com/smf/index.php?topic=1313.0




but is better inside Anim8or. :)
« Last Edit: April 09, 2015, 01:53:39 am by neirao »
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Raxx

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Re: Figure Editor: Simultaneously Add, Lengthen, Rotate Bones
« Reply #33 on: April 09, 2015, 01:53:20 am »

...
 A default of free all bones would be 1 answer, but then of course, all bones with no limits is not always a good thing.
...

I've done my fair share of animating in other programs, and I've never, ever, used bone limits nor felt the need for it, even with character rigs. Heck, I'd even forgotten there was the option until I'd try a test rig in Anim8or and go through the grueling neverending ticking of boxes. It's true that most everything in real life has a range of motion, but when animating it's more about what looks right. Beyond anything, the simple freedom of being able to transform a bone exactly where I want it with simple clicking and dragging, I believe, should take priority. <--guess I went on a tangent there

Regarding your image, johnar, this is where a properties side panel would be spectacular, where you just select the bones and change the values and it applies to all of the selected ones. Absolute reliance on dialog boxes to change common properties are pretty disruptive of the workflow. I think I remember Steve was working on or planning to work on UI changes...I hope we can start getting away from the dialog boxes if he does.
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Steve

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Re: Figure Editor: Simultaneously Add, Lengthen, Rotate Bones
« Reply #34 on: April 09, 2015, 02:33:29 am »

Property Panels: I would very much like to replace dialogs with property panels. It will definitely happen. It's a massive amount of code to rewrite, maybe 3-6 months worth. I think it's more important to work on all the editing tool changes first, (and maybe even add sound and IK, too!) before I tackle property panels.

Joint Limits: I'll make the default "no limits" as many have suggested. I may add user-specified toggle for this, or full blown user settings  for the default, or something like that, depending on everyone's comments after the change.

Note: joint limits can improve IK's realism as characters can tend to look like rag dolls with unrestricted joints.
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davdud101

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Re: Figure Editor: Simultaneously Add, Lengthen, Rotate Bones
« Reply #35 on: April 09, 2015, 02:37:39 am »

Steve, you truly are a hero of the independent software developer realm!
 If I can chime in, I think the one thing that would take sequence and scene mode a big step forward (for speed of workflow) would be an improved an "Fast Select"-styled bone rotation tool, like in my horrendously doctored image below:
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cooldude234

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Re: Figure Editor: Simultaneously Add, Lengthen, Rotate Bones
« Reply #36 on: April 09, 2015, 04:47:09 am »

Also steve have you considered making bones editable in scene mode (rotating and position)? Sorry if you already answered this question.
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nemyax

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Re: Figure Editor: Simultaneously Add, Lengthen, Rotate Bones
« Reply #37 on: April 09, 2015, 07:30:05 am »

OK I've experimented a bit with using the Shift key in Add Bones mode so you can orient/scale bones by click-dragging on their tips. It works fairly well so I'll include it in the next drop.
Superb! Thank you.

I don't know how distinguish between the start of a bone and the tip of it's parent though.
This could be something to discuss after the dragging is committed.
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thecolclough

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Re: Figure Editor: Simultaneously Add, Lengthen, Rotate Bones
« Reply #38 on: April 09, 2015, 10:30:10 am »

Joint Limits: I'll make the default "no limits" as many have suggested. I may add user-specified toggle for this...
user-spec toggle would be good :)

Note: joint limits can improve IK's realism as characters can tend to look like rag dolls with unrestricted joints.
yep - the way i rig things, there tend to be some bones that should *never* move, and it would kinda ruin the IK party for me if there was no longer a way of flagging these bones as unavailable for the IK system to move, so i'm all in favour of keeping limits as an option, even if they're turned off by default!
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johnar

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Re: Figure Editor: Simultaneously Add, Lengthen, Rotate Bones
« Reply #39 on: April 09, 2015, 10:38:01 am »

Starting with no limits by default is certainly preferrable to starting with a rigid frame which you need to free up each bone individually before you can move anything.
 That'll be excellent.
 Nice one steve.
 
 
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nemyax

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Re: Figure Editor: Simultaneously Add, Lengthen, Rotate Bones
« Reply #40 on: April 09, 2015, 10:48:18 am »

joint limits can improve IK's realism as characters can tend to look like rag dolls with unrestricted joints
IK limits are usually independent from FK limits.
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captaindrewi

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Re: Figure Editor: Simultaneously Add, Lengthen, Rotate Bones
« Reply #41 on: April 09, 2015, 03:13:05 pm »

Joint Limits: I'll make the default "no limits" as many have suggested. I may add user-specified toggle for this, or full blown user settings  for the default, or something like that, depending on everyone's comments after the change.
hoorah!
@Neirao
thanks for reposting the tool Neirao :),i thought there was a tool like this out there somewhere but couldn't find it.
i tried it today but not all the bones in the demo figure had there boxes ticked. :o though that could be something to do with the version of anim8or the demo .an8 defaulted to?which was 1163.I will experiment some more.
Success tried it again with 1170 worked perfectly :D.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2015, 03:49:36 pm by captaindrewi »
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Steve

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Re: Figure Editor: Simultaneously Add, Lengthen, Rotate Bones
« Reply #42 on: April 09, 2015, 04:48:21 pm »

neirao: nice illustrations, as usual. They do a great job of illustrating your ideas :)

cooldude234: Editing the base properties of bones in the Scene editor (length, relationship to parent bone, etc.) could cause some problems if there are multiple Elements built from that Figure. But I don't see any technical reason that it can't be done, in fact should be fairly easy.  I'll add it so you can give it a try.
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neirao

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Re: Figure Editor: Simultaneously Add, Lengthen, Rotate Bones
« Reply #43 on: April 09, 2015, 05:21:31 pm »

but not all the bones in the demo figure had there boxes ticked. :o
@thanks, yes some bones no unlock to free, is a bug (no is a professional tool),
i lost the original source of this tool for make the correction..
but in next months i will made others tools for we using together with Anim8or! :) i have many ideas!!

@Thanks Steve, you are amazing! how someone say days ago... for a alone programmer you are a Hero!!   ;D
step by step Anim8or is turning a software incredible, light, little and easy to use, even more!
« Last Edit: April 09, 2015, 05:22:30 pm by neirao »
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Water Music

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Re: Figure Editor: Simultaneously Add, Lengthen, Rotate Bones
« Reply #44 on: April 09, 2015, 10:34:02 pm »

I always default the bones -179 to 179 to make sure there aren't any weird pathing issues, i.e. going the wrong way round to get there.  I'd personally prefer that as the default, but that's just me.  I'm not sure if that's even a problem anymore, though, as I never set "no limits".
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