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Author Topic: IK tool  (Read 13678 times)

daniel99

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Re: IK tool
« Reply #45 on: October 03, 2016, 01:29:50 pm »

johnar: I totally agree. I've been thinking a lot about that. But it seems sometimes would be very helpful to have the locked feet follow the body (example: jumping), but also other times would be essential to have the feet stay in place... I don't really know which would be better...
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Steve

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Re: IK tool
« Reply #46 on: October 03, 2016, 04:02:04 pm »

johnar: I agree. What I want is both locked effectors that won't move no matter what, and "goal" effectors like it works now. There are a lot of other options that might be useful, or might just make the interface too complicated: locking an individual axis, locking rotation, limiting movement in a direction (i.e. don't let the effector go below Y=0 (the ground) but let it move higher.) But this is all for sometime later.

#098-092 - End effectors don't show after adding a Figure to a Scene. -- Thanks for the bug report.

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johnar

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Re: IK tool
« Reply #47 on: October 04, 2016, 06:44:31 am »

steve
 you're welcome

Quote
locked effectors that won't move no matter what, and "goal" effectors like it works now.
Perfect. The 'sometime later' things sound awesome also, but "locking the effectors, along with the goal effectors we have now", will make the IK system 'a proper runner'. 

daniel99
Quote
sometimes would be very helpful to have the locked feet follow the body (example: jumping)
The way i see it, when you lock the foot/feet to the ground, i'm imagining that will set some kind of 'locked key' (?) So on the last frame before the feet leave the ground, locked effectors will be locked, and on the next frame, double click the effector and 'unlock it', so it can move from it's previously 'locked' position. ie: Leave the ground. (or where-ever it was locked too.)
 
 On another IK related subject, i've been moving between IK and FK 'a lot', (in the same animation), and haven't had a problem for 99% of the time. Haven't had a reproduce-able freeze yet. Am keeping alert for it tho, in mind of having something 'reportable' if i can reproduce it.

 EDIT: Started anim8or after last post and was reminded, there is a glitch which i've found, but its in FK mode, when swapping between the two, (IK/FK), and is trackball related.
I'll get back later when i can give more precise info. If its a trackball issue, and not related to IK, i'll post it in the trackball thread.
Cheers 
« Last Edit: October 04, 2016, 10:46:01 am by johnar »
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daniel99

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Re: IK tool
« Reply #48 on: October 04, 2016, 11:44:49 am »

johnar I agree :D About the crashing/freezing. Fortunately, I haven't had a freeze since Steve fixed it, a couple of builds ago, I believe. It happened kinda often when dealing with IK. I'm glad this didn't happen for a while, but i I'll have some more problems with that, I'll let you know/screen rec.
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johnar

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Re: IK tool
« Reply #49 on: October 06, 2016, 10:10:33 am »

Hi  steve, and An8 users

Got a bit carried away with this post, but will take a gamble and post it.
 I'm trying to work out the easiest, most fluent method(s) for character aniamation using the tools available in Anim8or.
IK and a few other upgrades have thrown some brilliant options into the mix.
 It seems a commonly accepted point,(?), that when animating with IK, the joints in the IK chain may need to be 'tweaked' using the FK system.
 Ok, so that's fine. Therefore, a fluent method of character animation would require being easilly able to flick back and forth  between IK and FK.
 Fastest way, of course, is shortcut keys.
 Cool. So, we can jump back and forth quickly and easily, thats half the problem solved. (from a users point of view anyway).
 The next part of keeping fluidity in the animation process would be to be able to continue animating as quickly as possible once you have changed into either IK or FK
 As it is now, going from FK to IK is fast and straight forward. Click into IK, the effectors are showing, the green key is on, and you can continue animating 'step unbroken'.
 IK and away.

 From IK to FK is not so 'clean'.
 If an IK chain is selected when you change to FK, the trackballs of all relevant bones, (selected), are showing. In reality, trying to use the trackball when its overlapped with other trackballs, is extremely difficult, if not impossible.
 I also notice the z axis often wont rotate all the way to its limit. (?) (using trackball)
 The trackballs are a superb addition, but, imho, there are times when you just can't beat the LMB, MMB, RMB on the bone itself, for moving that bone exactly how you want it.
 (some situations the trackball is better, some situations not)
 
 Progress in finding 'the easiest and most fluent method(s)' for animating in Anim8or has just recently taken a huge step, with the introduction of IK, and the key and shortcut keys available.
 I'm a fan of double keying for complete stillness. Its quicker than needing to set a step key at the beginning of a movement, and brings movement to a complete stop when required.
  ie: an IK limb is selected by clicking on the effector. The bones are selected. Press 'k', and they're keyed. Press 'Ctrl-C' copies the keys. Arrow moves 1 frame fwd. Press 'Ctrl-V' keys are pasted. (just made a double key) Move fwd a few frames, rotate selected IK Chain etc ...
 At some point along the timetrack, it can become difficult keeping up with the keys on multiple limbs. 'Key all bones' is a good fix for that. And double keying all bones is a fresh clean ''re-starting' point.
 So, i guess what this post is getting at, in my quest for a fluid method of animating, is actually a re-quest:
 Quick key(s) for jumping between IK-FK-IK-etc.
 Quick key(s) for turning trackballs on and off
 
 and a Quick key for key all bones. You could just select the entire figure and press k, but that would also key morphs, which wouldn't always be what you want to do. So a seperate quick key for key all bones would be a usefull/(crucial) option.
  ??
 Thanks for reading.

EDIT: Have posted an possible alternative to 'Quick key(s) for turning trackballs on and off'
 (In trackball thread)
« Last Edit: October 06, 2016, 09:33:44 pm by johnar »
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nemyax

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Re: IK tool
« Reply #50 on: October 06, 2016, 11:23:36 am »

a fluent method of character animation would require being easilly able to flick back and forth  between IK and FK.
This is commonly done by making IK strength a separate animation track where you can set keys in the range 0.0 (full FK) to 1.0 (full IK). In this case, rotation keys are ignored at full IK, and they get more influence as IK strength decreases.
Of course, this requires that IK be based on a real-time solver instead of a system for auto-setting rotation keys as in the current Anim8or.
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Steve

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Re: IK tool
« Reply #51 on: October 07, 2016, 12:13:16 am »

johnar: I agree that all those trackballs is too cluttered. Showing just the last clicked-on bone could be a nice solution. I'll experiment.

I also plan to try enabling IK with the Bone Rotate tool: with IK visible, you'll be able to click-drag an IK handle, or click to select and then use the IK widget. In effect IK and FK would be the same tool. The only catch is that I haven't worked out how to move the whole figure like you can now in the IK tool.

I've also looked at 3D Studio which only shows 1 trackball even when you select multiple bones, but when you rotate it the bones rotate is odd ways, not how you'd expect with a skeleton system. But it doesn't show multiple trackballs, at least I haven't been able to make it do that.

I forgot to add: "I also notice the z axis often wont rotate all the way to its limit." When you rotate along one axis it can also change the others. The X can affect all three, the Z can also change X, but Y is independent. This is because of the order that the rotations are used when building the final (quaternion) orientation: First rotate X, then rotate Z in the resulting orientation after X has been applied, then Y after both X and Z. (It's mathematically impossible to do them simultaneously!)

So when you rotate around the Z axis and the X angle is also changing, when either the X or Z value hits a limit the rotation stops.

Note that when yo display the axis as arcs (hot key-X) the three axes are not always at right angles. unlike the trackball whose axes are. This is because the trackball rotates uses the final orientation as it's basis, thus avoiding the gimbal lock'

nemyax: I'm not sure what it would mean to have half IK and half FK. Do you move the effector half-way to the goal?
« Last Edit: October 07, 2016, 12:34:08 am by Steve »
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johnar

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Re: IK tool
« Reply #52 on: October 07, 2016, 06:22:22 am »

steve
Ok. Good one. Understood, and interesting. Thanks for that. Cheers.  :)

nemyax
 Thanks for the comparison.  :)
« Last Edit: October 07, 2016, 06:53:24 am by johnar »
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nemyax

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Re: IK tool
« Reply #53 on: October 07, 2016, 12:39:13 pm »

nemyax: I'm not sure what it would mean to have half IK and half FK. Do you move the effector half-way to the goal?
I mean IK animation and FK animation are independent from each other. Which one kicks in depends on which is currently enabled, and the on/off state of IK can be animated.
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nemyax

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Re: IK tool
« Reply #54 on: October 07, 2016, 02:54:49 pm »

Steve
Here's an example of this in action (Maya):


Note how the bones are animated with both FK and IK and you can switch between the two. While one is active, a ghost animation of the other is displayed (this is optional).
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Steve

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Re: IK tool
« Reply #55 on: October 09, 2016, 11:11:43 pm »

johnar: I just posted build 1255 that should address some of your concerns about switching between IK and FK. The main differences are:

1) Only one track ball shown. Normally it is for the most recently clicked bone in Bone Rotate mode. If that one has been deselected then it picks another one.
2) Bone selections are preserved when switching between IK, FK (and other tools).
3) There is a new hot key for "Key All Bones" Ctrl-K.
   Question 1: should this also key all morph targets, like Key All Selected Bones + Morph Targets does?
   Question 2: this set's keys for all bones in all figures, as it always has. This could be a problem for large scenes. Should I change it to only key things in any figure with at lease one selected bone? It seems like something like this is needed.
4) I've added the first part of Folders for Bones. You can add bones to folders, just like you can for objects, scenes, etc. They are currently grouped in the time-track by folder but this is a work in progress. The folder isn't shown and you can't expand or collapse folders, etc. because I haven't finished that code yet.

Give the new IK-FK transition changes a try and let me know what you think!
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johnar

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Re: IK tool
« Reply #56 on: October 10, 2016, 12:32:15 am »

 Hi steve.
 That's awesome stuff.
 Will get a chance to give 1255 a spin tonite, and will get back to you on that.
 I can answer your questions now tho.

Quote
Question 1: should this also key all morph targets, like Key All Selected Bones + Morph Targets does?
I don't think 'key all bones' should key all morph targets as well.
 With character animation, morph targets are probably mostly used for facial expressions, lip sync etc, and not necessarily in tune with the movement of the figure. So, in these cases, you
would be animating bones and morph targets quite seperately, and would not necessarilly be wanting to create any morph keys while animating the rig.
 Being able to key 'selected bones and morph targets', as we can now, already gives the
ability to choose morphs as well 'when required'.

 
Quote
Question 2: this set's keys for all bones in all figures, as it always has........
Key all bones could key just the bones of the selected figure?
 Its only a mouse click to select extra figures if you want all bones keyed in them as well.
 Keying 'just the selected figure' could save a lot of unnecessary keys in the file.
 
 will sign off for now, and get back to you soon.
 Thanks steve. Magic.

 

 
« Last Edit: October 10, 2016, 12:34:08 am by johnar »
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daniel99

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Re: IK tool
« Reply #57 on: October 10, 2016, 03:04:44 am »

Nice work, Steve!
Just a little something I've just noticed. When I drag outside the work area, it seems the figure change position... I usually drag outside to reset the last action, but now it jumps :D
Btw. Any idea when you'll be able to fix the end effectors not to wiggle around?
Thanks.
Keep up the good work.


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Steve

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Re: IK tool
« Reply #58 on: October 10, 2016, 05:28:53 pm »

danien99: I can repro this bug - I'll fix it. As for the end effectors staying put, I'm working on it. There's a lot of code to change to integrate it with the existing controllers.
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thecolclough

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Re: IK tool
« Reply #59 on: October 10, 2016, 07:54:46 pm »

Question 2 ... Should I change it to only key things in any figure with at lease one selected bone?
i'd definitely prefer this option
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