Anim8or Community

General Category => Anim8or v0.98 Discussion Forum => Topic started by: bamman62 on August 22, 2008, 12:29:51 am

Title: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: bamman62 on August 22, 2008, 12:29:51 am
 Being the genius he is, Steve single-handedly  (as far as I know) put together a great modeling program that is still in its infancy stages. There is still a long way to go, but I am confident that it will become great program.

 Now, these ideas may not be necessary to the program, but it could still prove useful in many situation.

1. Interface customization. It is an unnecessary thing, but I would enjoy being able to completely revamp the interface. Customizable Icons, Color Schemes, Menu Placements, etc. (Also a revamp on the icon coloring for some very aesthetic icons).

2.  Anim8or+Terranim8or. Pretty self explanatory, just everything in terranim8or put into anim8or. It would solve many errors in Terranim8or, along with improving anim8or itself.

3. UV mapping. Of course, you could always dump it into UV mapper and do it from there, but it has complications in and of itself. It would also make anim8or a little more of an all-in-one program.

4. Some mesh editing brushes, after trying out a little bit of Z-brush, I noticed the sheer genius in its making. Anim8or could benefit my so much more with this. Of course, it could not just be a replica of it, but it could have completely different tools. This would go well with (idea #2) when forming valleys, caves, etc.

5. A larger filetype support. I have to admit, Steve did a much better job than Autodesk with exporters. It would also be great if he included a vast number of different filetypes. Things like .nif, .raw, .cad.

6. I guess I could have included this in number five, but along with .nif (Gamebryo Files) niftools would also be beneficial in the next full release. This would only be useful to a very small minority and is probably not worth the overall effort, but it would still be cool.

7. Ability to merge a plug-in into the anim8or source code. It would save the trouble of that debug output, and it would save some desktop space (If that is your directory).

8. Free form select. Most other 3d programs have a freeform select, I suppose anim8or needs one too.

9. A few more primitives. Things like tube, plane, and stairs. Scripts can add these, so with #7 this idea is useless.

10. A cloth mesh, particle effect, and a liquid. Another feature in other programs that would be cool in anim8or.


Lastly, allow snap to angle to work with scale faces, rotate faces (a must), and many other features it previously would not work on.

Feel free to critique my ideas, along with post your own.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: xalener on August 22, 2008, 01:24:25 am
Mabye the ability to draw topology over a mesh in order to create another mesh? Like blender? (I think)


Either way, I'm sure Steve knows what we want. It isn't the first time he's heard these suggestions......

Weather he's gonna do it or not.....no one knows.....


Signs point to eventually. lol.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: bamman62 on August 22, 2008, 02:03:54 am
Well said  :D. Possible a custom mode that lets you choose individual features.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: RnDr FOX on August 22, 2008, 04:29:49 am
well headwax you want an update in the modeling as for me

I would like to see an animation update
I feel that the animation part of anim8or is it's weakest part
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: hihosilver on August 22, 2008, 09:48:44 am
bamman:  Scripts are already possible, and there are many scripts created by other users, both for modeling and as primitive shapes.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: Kubajzz on August 22, 2008, 10:17:45 am
Several things on bammans request list are already possible or will be possible once ASL is fully enabled in Anim8or, so there's no need to ask for them:

Quote from: bamman62
2.  Anim8or+Terranim8or. Pretty self explanatory, just everything in terranim8or put into anim8or...
Some of the things things Terranim8or does (like terrain generation) are already possible using ASL plugins (check this (http://www.anim8or.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000056.html)), features like particle generation will be possible once scripts are fully enabled for scene mode.

Quote from: bamman62
5. A larger filetype support. I have to admit, Steve did a much better job than Autodesk with exporters. It would also be great if he included a vast number of different filetypes. Things like .nif, .raw, .cad.
I think Steve doesn't bother adding more export formats since anybody else can write an export script (well, I can't, but you got the idea...)

Several more of your suggestions are IMHO a bit pointless (like #7 - why???), but you also have some great ideas there! The "snap to angle" function would be great, as well as improved selection functions...

My main request is as much ASL flexibility as possible... Since ASL was released, Anim8or has got a lot of features added by users, Steve is not really the only developer any more.... And plenty of new amazing functions could be created!
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: thecolclough on August 22, 2008, 10:40:08 am
some of these ideas i like (free-form select sounds good), others i'm a bit more 'meh' about (.nif?  never even heard of it :P ).  i just thought when i was reading the above comments about scripts and how they can add extra primitives and things - maybe it would be a good idea if a few of these basic scripts started being distributed in the download package along with anim8or itself?  i suppose steve would have to check with the script writers to make sure they were happy to have their scripts distributed in this way, but i'd guess most would be perfectly fine with the idea.

i could probably rattle off loads of little things which i think might be cool, but if i had to pick just one or two which i'd really like to see prioritised in the next release, i'd have to say faster rendering, and working volume shadows.

- colclough
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: bamman62 on August 22, 2008, 01:22:41 pm
That is why I was a little bit jumpy about nif files. Nif is the Gamebryo filetype, it is used to insert custom meshes into many popular games (PC only) like TES IV Oblivion.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: almost cool on August 23, 2008, 01:33:35 am
well a path mode where you can hold down your mouse and drag to make paths faster.


9. A few more primitives. Things like tube...

make a path in the shape of the pipes,make an n-gon.select it and go to build|extrude,select path,click on the path.u gottit.wow,i gave good advice. 8)
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: xalener on August 23, 2008, 03:32:28 am
I sometimes wish Steve would post a list of features he plans to put in the next version...
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: bamman62 on August 23, 2008, 05:44:42 am
He might not be for sure himself :P. Oh, and to Almost Cool. The point of a primitive is to allow greater mesh control at a much faster pace. You could make a sphere out of a square, but it saves time to have a sphere primitive. Making a tube is a really simple task, it is just that it would be faster with a primitive.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: lynn22 on August 23, 2008, 11:44:37 am
Something I would like to have is the possibility of moving an object in scene mode with the keyboard's arrow keys like you can do in object mode.
Moving an object with the mouse can sometimes be very fiddly where with the arrow keys you can place the object exactly where you want it.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: 3D Joe Wiltshire on August 23, 2008, 04:23:26 pm
I agree with lynn, that has been bugging me for ages.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: xalener on August 23, 2008, 05:13:06 pm
Something I would like to have is the possibility of moving an object in scene mode with the keyboard's arrow keys like you can do in object mode.
Moving an object with the mouse can sometimes be very fiddly where with the arrow keys you can place the object exactly where you want it.

I suppose the reason he didn't do that yet is because of the timeline.

May I suggest that the timeline has to be selected for arrow key control?
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: lynn22 on August 23, 2008, 11:13:32 pm
I know, if you use the arrow keys in scene mode in the program as it is now, then the indicator on the timeline moves.

However, possibly using like Shift+arrow key or Alt+arrow key could make a selected object move in scene mode.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: bamman62 on September 02, 2008, 11:29:06 pm
Well, it seems everybody understands the point of this thread as more of a "Your own suggestions go here" which is what I was intending :P. I will not edit the list, but I found some of my other ideas already possible. Although I do have some more to prevent this post from simply being a 'bump'. I also agree with headwax that I see anim8or more as a modeler than a renderer. Now, here is a list of a few things I suggest that I have not noticed in any other modeling program.

 Uniform scale settings- Uniform scale affects height, width, and depth, but what if you want to make a cylinder fatter, but not longer. Or if you just want to influence the height. Non uniform scale forces you to switch to top view, this leaves room for both human error, and is time consuming. Being able to make the scale only effect Z and Y would be very benificial in some cases.

 An edit on merge points- It seems when you merge points it pulls toward one side ore the other, The operation is in the menu bar, so why not give it some pop-up settings before the operation is performed. You could choose 'Meet at left', 'Meet at right', or 'Meet in Middle'

Subdivide vertically or horizontally- Sometimes I simply want to have more vertical points on a mesh, or horizontal. The current operation forces both.

Cut faces by selecting points- Whenever you cut an extra edge into the face, ALWAYS influences the back of the mesh. This can become a real hassle. My idea is that FRONT and BACK actually influence the cut faces operation.   

Once again, great suggestions from previous posters, and the main point of this thread is not to express my ideas; it is to allow everyone else to form their own. This will save a little space in the forums for the actual errors and allow anim8or to become a better program in the long run. (It also save the critique of making your own topic).
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: hihosilver on September 03, 2008, 01:35:39 am
Quote
Subdivide vertically or horizontally- Sometimes I simply want to have more vertical points on a mesh, or horizontal. The current operation forces both.

To do this you can select an edge, and as long as your trying to cut across an edge loop you can simply press "shift + q" which will do a ring loop select.  You can then press 'j' and connect edges.  It will make one continuous cut throughout the edges.

Quote
Cut faces by selecting points- Whenever you cut an extra edge into the face, ALWAYS influences the back of the mesh. This can become a real hassle. My idea is that FRONT and BACK actually influence the cut faces operation.   

I'm not sure what version you're using there.  Cutting faces with 'back' turned off should only cut the front-ward facing faces.  So perhaps you're using an older version?  I'm using v0.97b and it works fine.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: KiwiNM8OR on September 03, 2008, 10:48:31 am
Well, I too know of Anim8or's infancy and how great Anim8or is at surface modeling and though I'm not waiting too soon for this I would like to see more fog type effects. For example isolating fog to all axis X,Y and Z, This is admittedly more of a Special FX feature but imagine being able to make a column of fog or even a simple layer, then a gap, then another layer like layers of cloud. Already fog has near and far Z-axis and seemingly limitless Y-axis but how about an X-axis too? But like I said I'm not going to wait too soon and Anim8or has far more pressing problems than the addition of Special FX...so far...Having said that Anim8or in my view is fun too use with with an excellent and simple to understand interface. I'm no great modeler or even anywhere near figure anim8ing but I enjoy this program and hope to see  it well into the future of animation. Cheers Steve. By the way what does the R stand for or are you being shy...lol (what with internet id protection and all). Cheers either way and a big maaaaaaaa from New Zealand (I'm sure headwax and definitly johnarr knows what I mean by that...hehe) This site is fun.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: bamman62 on September 03, 2008, 11:52:03 am
Quote
I'm not sure what version you're using there.  Cutting faces with 'back' turned off should only cut the front-ward facing faces.  So perhaps you're using an older version?  I'm using v0.97b and it works fine.


I use .97b in some cases, but I use 95 due to its slightly lower rate of crashing. I did tried in in 95 and it worked. The strange thing is that it didn't for a period of time. (Then again things can get really glitchy with it in long sessions). I will have to try the loop cut suggestion later.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: spicy on September 03, 2008, 07:11:21 pm
Some of those ideas are good, are those just collected ideas over the years or yours? Anim8or is a good capable program but there is always room for improvement
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: onespirit5777 on September 07, 2008, 05:20:49 am
I really like the UV settings in v97b, but sometimes I still use the UV settings in v95. They are very useful in certain areas. The next version should have them both.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: Thanos on September 08, 2008, 10:05:36 am
Paralax mapping would be nice
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: hihosilver on September 08, 2008, 10:15:55 pm
Thanos, I believe paralax mapping has a lot more to do with games, though normal mapping is used more often.  Some game engines can use parallax mapping, but a good first step would be to be able to use normal maps which are much more common.  Still, since Anim8or doesn't have any way to bake a normal map or paralax map, and it doesn't have any sculpting tools for extremely high-res models I don't see too much of a use for paralax mapping yet since it's not really a game-oriented 3d tool in those ways.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: bamman62 on September 08, 2008, 10:26:13 pm
\o/   On the normal mapping idea. Also a little more complexity in the UV mapping,
 l l  such as allowing multiple UV's for a model. Also, the ability to view, edit, and export a UV map.
 
 
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: Suppastar on September 11, 2008, 03:40:35 am
...I don't see too much of a use for paralax mapping yet since it's not really a game-oriented 3d tool in those ways...

I hope one day we get those tools, because right now making game models in anim8or sucks. Trust me.


Anyway, Actual Normal Mapping or Virtual Displacement Mapping would be useful for everything, Height maps don't have the same effect as Normal maps/VDM. Real Normal maps/VDM would help create better models for gaming/mod's and rendering. Normals make something look bumped up instead of barely making it rise off the mesh

Example: http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews/X800XTdhreview/ATIHTMLPAGES/mapping.jpg
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: hihosilver on September 11, 2008, 05:07:33 am
My only issue is that Anim8or doesn't have any sculpting tools.  To create normal maps, you'd have to create them in a different program anyways.  Support of viewing them could be nice, but I don't know how much of an effort should be put in for this reason unless Steve plans on sculpting and extremely high poly support.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: Suppastar on September 11, 2008, 05:43:16 am
I only meant for "Rendering" Normal maps, to make Normals you would have to have a external program, I know that. But, Rendering Normal maps in the rendering process would be easier then re-writing AN8 to make it accept a slew of external .bats and such just for one thing. 


Full Normal map integration should only be implemented if and ONLY if you Re-write Anim8or, Steve.  ;)

Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: Steve on September 11, 2008, 05:50:44 am
"Just so you know..."  I do read all these suggestions.  They are helpful in prioritizing what I work on.

And to KiwiNM8OR: the "R" stands for "Arrrrrr, matey!"  Oops, no, I mean, "Robert".
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: floyd86 on September 11, 2008, 09:43:17 am
And to KiwiNM8OR: the "R" stands for "Arrrrrr, matey!"  Oops, no, I mean, "Robert".

I always knew steve was a pirate ^^.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: CowTail on September 11, 2008, 10:31:15 pm
Steve, I think a great investment of your an8 dev time would be to support the COLLADA (.dae) or Filmbox (.fbx) format. Just pick one and focus on it as the primary export format and update it regularly with each release, and you'll be opening a lot more avenues for Anim8or to be used with! These formats are specifically for interchanging between 3d applications, and they're also being more widely used in game engines, so it's like knocking out several birds with one stone.

But aside from that, I think an upgrade in the modeling tools to make it more intuitive would be great, it's fallen behind compared to the other programs out there. 3D widgets, a "tweak" tool similar to that in softimage XSI or wings3D (with soft selection), real-time mirroring, etc.

And IMO, the skeletal animation system needs a complete overhaul.

Thanks for your time and effort!
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: bamman62 on September 11, 2008, 10:39:44 pm
I've always though of obj as the universal export format...
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: CowTail on September 11, 2008, 10:56:56 pm
The Wavefront OBJ format was and still is a popular format for static meshes with limited shader information. There's virtually no polygon limit and there's no triangulation, and the UVs are preserved. Coupled with material .mtl files, it's pretty powerful for swapping between programs.

HOWEVER, the .obj format is low-level compared to .dae or .fbx. If you haven't heard of those format yet then you're behind the times and you need to start looking it up. http://www.khronos.org/collada/ and http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=8224901

What these files contain is almost everything: Geometry, Shaders and File Dependencies, animation data, etc.

You'd be able to export animations or scenes in Anim8or and import it into other 3d packages or game engines that support the format, and more than likely for the software that doesn't support it, there'd be a way to convert it (versus our current option for Anim8or which is almost non-existent).

Quote from wikipedia (regarding Collada, the same nearly applies to FBX):
Quote
COLLADA was intended originally as an intermediate format for transporting data from one digital content creation (DCC) tool to another. Applications exist to support that usage for several DCCs, including Maya (using ColladaMaya); 3ds Max (using ColladaMax); LightWave 3D (version 9.5); Maxon|Cinema 4D R11; Softimage|XSI; Side Effect's Houdini; MeshLab; SketchUp, Blender and modo. COLLADA .dae files can be used in Adobe Photoshop software since version CS3. Game engines, such as Unreal engine, have also adopted this format.

And it goes without saying that importing the format is a large bonus as well.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: bamman62 on September 11, 2008, 11:20:37 pm
I have heard of them, I never really thought of them as important filetypes though.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: xalener on September 12, 2008, 01:53:07 am
May I suggest volumetric fog "boxes"?

Like an object that would contain a fog effect inside it?

It would be very helpful for keeping fog in one room, or atmosphere, and anything like that.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: doctorb5 on September 12, 2008, 02:04:51 am
Ok, I'll add my suggestion too ;). (It seems to me that this would be easy to code since most of the necessary functions are already written in the current program). How about having the ability to use a "server" version of Anim8or where you could send scenes and animations to be rendered? Here's how it would work: You could gather 3 or 4 old PC's running Windows and connect them via a cheap mini-switch to form a tiny network. Then you would start Anim8or in "server" mode on all those PC's. On your usual machine (where you do the modeling, etc.) you would start Anim8or in "client" mode and point it to the "servers". Now every time you need to render a scene or an animation, your "client" sends a copy of the file to the servers and immediately returns the control to you. The servers do the rendering in the background while you keep working on your models/scenes. When the rendering is done, your "client" gets notified and you can view the results. This would amount to a small render farm like the pros have.

If that feature is already part of Anim8or, I appologize in advance... :-[
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: thecolclough on September 12, 2008, 10:06:45 am
May I suggest volumetric fog "boxes"?

Like an object that would contain a fog effect inside it?
i really like this one 8)

i had a similar thought a while back, just never posted it here: how about a material attribute or something, which will give your object a fog-type appearance, whatever its shape?  on reconsideration, though, it would be good if it was implemented in a way that would work in renderers other than ART, which i guess wouldn't be possible with material attributes (right?)

- colclough
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: Kubajzz on September 12, 2008, 10:29:40 am
Fog that is only in a specified area can be easily done with dielectric materials! Look at the image below. There's a cube with fog inside and a gray frame to show the shape.

The fog material must be dielectric and:
IOR must be 1.0,
Transparency must be 0,
specular must be 0.

That's all. I thought I should write a tutorial about this, but it would probably be the shortest tutorial ever...
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: lynn22 on September 12, 2008, 11:02:11 pm
I couldn't find it in the manual so here's another suggestion : short cut keys for adding extra frame(s) within the time line.

It takes 3 clicks to insert one frame and at times this can add up to a lot of clicks. I prefer to use the keyboard for repetitive actions  :)
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: xalener on September 13, 2008, 08:29:41 pm
Well, the dielectric method is good for now, but what i you want the camera inside it? (also) the volumetric fog box (can't think of any better name) can also be good for glowing objects, and solve a lot of previous creative problems for anim8ors.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: Kubajzz on September 14, 2008, 09:42:47 pm
Quote from: xalener
Well, the dielectric method is good for now, but what i you want the camera inside it?

You mean if it will work with the camera inside? No and yes.

If you put the camera inside a dielectric mesh, it won't work. But it will work if the camera will be inside a little "unfoggy bubble" - you have to create one more object with the same dielectric material and flipped normals. Add it to the scene, make the camera parent of this object and place it "around" the camera. Then you can move the camera into the fog and it will work.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: xalener on September 15, 2008, 09:15:26 pm
That's good...

But the fog is always going to be dark.
I messed with the settings a lot and couldn't fid a way to make the "glow" effect with dieletrics.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: Kubajzz on September 15, 2008, 09:37:02 pm
The fog will always have the color of the material - if you create a white or light yellow material, set transparency to 0 and make it dielectric, it should make a very light glow effect or fog...
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: VBSmiles on September 15, 2008, 09:50:40 pm
Ok, guess I'll add my hit-list, though sure it will blow right past Steven's eyes anyway.

First, I'd like to see what is refered to as translumanace (sp) in the attributes.
Along with this I would like to be able to add more than one attribute to a material.
Example would be translumanince AND dielectric.

While I am thinking about those 2, true light refractions,reflection, ect.(terminology ?)would be wonderful, particularly with the new dielectric.
( closest I've seen to this idea I came across by mistake by placing a bottle on a semi-mirrored table :P

Self illuminating objects would be very cool. Though havent yet tried playing with emissive with lower global light values.....

Visual representation of Fog values. I hate guessing, only to figure out that I'm nowhere close to what I wanted! Blocking out the scene doesn't help either ;)

Senario: you create this mega creature from hell and render it. then decide you want to work on it more, but  realize your meshes poly count is already in the billions. Perhaps there could be a way to reduce the polys by a deturmined percentage. Something to think about if nothing else...

Give me time and I'm sure I could think of more ;)







Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: VBSmiles on September 15, 2008, 09:56:59 pm
You forgot something quite important ;)

UnitDistance can do a hella job on the material all by itself.

Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: hihosilver on September 16, 2008, 05:44:38 am
reducing the polys by a certain percentage is available in the latest version of terranim8or currently.  That could be helpful to you VBSmiles
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: VBSmiles on September 17, 2008, 12:25:39 am
Thanks hihosilver. I remember that prog. back before scripting was possible. Probably a whole new monster now :)
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: Renderman on September 18, 2008, 12:49:43 am
I'll be brief.
Video Textures.
Displacement mapping.
Global Illumination.
Motion Blur.
A new 3D Bird picture for the icon.

these are just a couple features that by themselves could make Anim8or a more professional program.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: bamman62 on September 18, 2008, 02:44:42 am
I took the liberty of creating a preview of what the 3d bird icon would look like :P. I just edited the front page picture and shrunk it down to a 128*128 image.

It is also good to see all of these great suggestions.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: VBSmiles on September 18, 2008, 09:33:55 pm
I'll be brief.
Video Textures.
Displacement mapping.
Global Illumination.
Motion Blur.
A new 3D Bird picture for the icon.

these are just a couple features that by themselves could make Anim8or a more professional program.
Dont knock the bird! that bird is "Da bomb"!!

Global illumination is already possible with the lights. Perhaps someone can make a script for it...... ( maybe even me ) just note that the more lights you use, the slower the rendering.



Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: bamman62 on September 18, 2008, 10:41:37 pm
Although sometimes I confuse whether the bird is facing the side or me :P


Now looking at it, I believe the 3d bird is a much better aesthetic choice.

(And I am fairly sure all professionalism will be saved for the VERSION 1.0 RELEASE)

(Oh, this makes the 50th post signifying the VERY HOT TOPICISM)
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: Tanzim on September 19, 2008, 11:56:09 am
The logo is just a logo, it's all about the program (although the 3D version you created does seem a bit better to me).
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: mcheccyb on September 19, 2008, 05:01:16 pm
global illumination is actually just simulating light bouncing, it doesn't mean light coming from all directions, though that is a kind of global illumination.

Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: Water Music on September 20, 2008, 02:20:57 am
I've finally had a chance to test the 97c version.  I have to say that I really love the new 2/3/4 screen viewing options.  Sometimes it really is the simplest things that have the most impact.

My suggestion is to have the Figure Mode absorbed into the Object/Point Edit area of the object mode.  To me that would mean slightly faster build times and it would also open the door to allow users to refine weighting manually via vertex properties.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: onespirit5777 on September 20, 2008, 04:49:51 pm
Something that would make things easier - to be able to select the faces on the left or right just like you do for front and back that way you have more control over the faces you want to work on.

Select the right faces - drag select the entire object or do ctrl-a and only the right faces are highlighted.

Have this for all face select options.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: mack on September 20, 2008, 06:40:34 pm
you should get rid of the arc rotate button, it really slows down the work flow

you should utilize the middle mouse button for things like zooming in and rotating the view
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: floyd86 on September 20, 2008, 06:51:17 pm
you should get rid of the arc rotate button, it really slows down the work flow

you should utilize the middle mouse button for things like zooming in and rotating the view

I think that arc rotate is one of the best functions in anim8or. Ctrl+r to open it, the left mouse button the turn the view, the right to move the view and the middle to zoom. I think it works perfect as it is. If you try out different 3d software, you will see that arc rotate works way better then the other software's view-tools.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: mack on September 20, 2008, 07:17:33 pm
I'm just saying it should work seamlessly with everything else, having it as a button means that you are either working, or viewing, and not both. It really slows you down

and having it as just a mouse click would mean you could do both
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: floyd86 on September 20, 2008, 09:02:04 pm
Use the shortcut for arc rotate: cltr+r. This works fast and you don't have to move and click with your mouse.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: Maxfield on September 20, 2008, 10:48:43 pm
My two pennorth:

Separately tileable texture channels

Procedural materials

Arc rotate using middle mouse button

Screen-space ambient occlusion

Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: DoctorStopMo on September 21, 2008, 04:48:33 am
Ooh, ooh!  I love wishlists!  Even though I haven't had much of a chance to use Anim8or much recently :(.

OBJECT MODE:
Chamfer/Fillet - it's a pain to "harden" edges for subdivided models.  Sometimes, it's nigh impossible.  If Anim8or could do this automatically, it'd be incredible.  (If you don't know what this is, Steve, let me know)

Cut Surface - sort of like the Knife tool, but adaptable to follow the contours of the existing surface rather than just making cuts in the plane (poorly explained again - sorry)

Natural Merge Points - for a mirrored object, sometimes it's a pain to find a distance that all points will be merged at.  At other times, it's impossible to do them all at once because some areas have really high point density, while others don't.  It'd be so much nicer if Anim8or were able to recognize analogous points, and 99.99% of the time, it'd be exactly what the user wanted anyway.

Natural Bridge - along the same vein, but with bridging of objects.  I believe Wings3d has such a feature.

FIGURE MODE:
Insert Bone - for those times when you realize it would be so much more convenient to have a bone in a given location...

Painted Weights - as much as I love this tool, it's really hard to use because the brush paints everything behind it, thus requiring multiple revisions of a single area.

SEQUENCE MODE:
IK - I know it's in the works, but just saying :).

Range of Motion Alteration - currently, the values can be changed, but the mode must be changed afterwards for them to be used.  If this could all occur in Sequence mode, it'd be nicer.

A brief list, but, I hope, realistic, and doable by Anim8or v.99. :)
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: CobraSpectre on September 21, 2008, 05:23:10 am
Bone inserting is something that's been added to Anim8or.

In figure mode it's under Build > Insert Bone.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: onespirit5777 on September 21, 2008, 06:15:06 pm
Out of most of what has been posted - hardened edges would be really nice. It would save a few extra step if you could select just the edges you want hardened.

I am aware of edge properties - the max is 7

What if it could be set to 10 or 100 - That would give it the edge of a box and then go down from there.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: DoctorStopMo on September 22, 2008, 03:46:51 am
Bone inserting is something that's been added to Anim8or.

In figure mode it's under Build > Insert Bone.

Oops - must've missed it amongst the releases!  Thanks :).
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: VBSmiles on September 22, 2008, 04:01:04 am
Quote
Natural Bridge - along the same vein, but with bridging of objects.  I believe Wings3d has such a feature.

I would think you can already do this by making both objects into one... guess I'll try it now  ;D
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: lynn22 on September 22, 2008, 02:18:35 pm
Painted weights

In Figure editor you can set the default of a bone at a certain angle and the object will move with the bone.
However, as soon as the skinning tool is selected the object returns to its default shape.

It would be nice if the object could remain attached to the bone because it would make the painting of any nooks and crannies so much easier.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: Steve on September 23, 2008, 06:19:01 am
onespirit5777 said "I am aware of edge properties - the max is 7" that's as good as 100.  IT refers to the number of subdivisions to de before smoothing the edge.  I seriously doubt that  you'll ever use 7.  At that number each original face is divided into 4**7 or 4096 faces and there is no visible angles left to crease!
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: bamman62 on September 27, 2008, 04:26:20 am
It seems moderately inactive here, I was curious to how long this topic would last on its own :P. Anyway, I hope suggestions will continue to be posted and critiqued here.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: odp04y on September 27, 2008, 08:57:42 pm
I was recently trying to figure out Blender (and failing >:() but there was one feature I liked which was the meta objects with merge with each oher when close.

this would make animating water much easier if it was put into anim8or (maybe v1?)
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: lynn22 on October 13, 2008, 05:42:43 pm
Local lights

It would also be nice if a Local light could have a beam showing its outer and inner radius just like Spotlight has. It makes it so much easier to pinpoint the "light  fall".
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: Steve on October 14, 2008, 05:51:56 am
I tried adding transparent spheres around local lights but it was too confusing.  Maybe I had too many faces on the shpere or too few or didn't make it tranparent enough or ???
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: hihosilver on October 14, 2008, 07:23:54 am
My recommendation would be a very low transparency setting, an ambiance of 1 so that it's not affected by lights, no diffuse, as you don't necessarily want it to have color, just be transparent, and a slight emissive value to brighten things up a bit.
In fact, here's a file with an example:
If you wanted you could even give it a neon green outline that always faces the user.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: craksy on October 15, 2008, 01:23:14 am
maya has this feature called nurb premetives!
while polygon premitives are build up of edges, nurb premitives are build up of isoprams which is basicly curves!
this saves alot of time when modelig since you dont have to reposition a billion og vertecies, but just a couple to make round shapes for a head for example.

also theres stuff like cloth, liquids, and particle generation, which i really miss in animator!

i know maya is profesional software, and anim8or is a freeware programmed by a single person (amazing steve :O) so i may be asking for to much.

to compare with maya again: after i tried maya, i realised how important the shading is for the final result! even the most ugly model, can look photorealistic with the right shading, and light!
anim8or is really lacking of advanced shading/lighting features!

also, since directX is the most common 3D SDK, it would be cool if you could transelate anim8or into directX, cause i would really like to play around with some source code, and i know pretty much nothing about openGL.... maybe its kinda unrealistic because much of those here doesnt code, and because it would take a pretty long time to transate a program like this, but it would be cool anyway :D

Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: texel on October 15, 2008, 11:04:30 am
Some ideas:

_ Export animated sequences to the .ms3d file format.
This file format is very simple, supported by a lot of 3D engine (such as irrlicht), and it can also by imported in Blender and converted to other file format (.x, .md2, .md5, ...).
The binary file format of .ms3d seems to be better than the ASCII because it supports up to 4 bones per vertices instead of 2.
It would be a lot easier for Steve to export to this file format than .x.
I think Anim8or could be a great modeler for Open source games with this feature.

_ Add ability to translate bones in sequences. In Anim8or, all bones are always sticked to each other. It is not the case for some modelers such as Lightwave and it is usefull to be able to detach some bones some times (Example: an animated character hold an another animated character which can go away). Without this feature, Anim8or will not be able to import skinned meshes from some of other modelers (ms3d, md5).

_ Add .png, .tga and .dds support. It has already be suggested but it's very important.

Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: Water Music on October 18, 2008, 02:32:15 am
I have a petty request, though I like anything that streamlines build times:  the ability to set end points for a bone *giggity*.  Reason being quick symmetry for a skeleton; e.g. if the left arm ends at 10, 10, 10 the right arm could just be set to -10, 10, 10 to make symmetry without fussing with all of the angles and bone lengths a second time.  I figure that would be nearly as functional as, but much easier to program than, full skeletal mirroring.  Cheers.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: xalener on October 18, 2008, 04:47:45 am
If you could set certain bones in certain figures as parents to objects in scene mode.

Like if you could attatch a red light to a robot's head bone......I'm saying this because that's excactly what I'm doing, and it'd be a LOT easier.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: KiwiNM8OR on October 18, 2008, 04:58:53 am
I think bone mirroring is a good idea too Water Music: any copying of a half for symmetry is a quick and useful tool And an option for it whether or not to automatically connect the points at the line of symmetry. I don't know if join solids does the same thing there but it certainly would be a good idea I think. However though and this is not a personal critique not everything has perfect symmetry. Your own face for example. Get a face on photo of yourself and mirror both sides of your face and compare them to your actual face and you will see three separate people who are all you. But I still agree, Good idea. I would use it.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: xalener on October 18, 2008, 05:04:54 am
While rendering a video, could there he a "x frames out of x frames" box or someting? To tell the final frame count in addition to the current frame?

Sonetimes I forget how long I make some vids, and get uneasy. I want to know how much time is left until the comp is youtube safe!
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: karate5662 on October 18, 2008, 11:12:33 pm
i wouldn't mind seeing vector materials so that no matter how close you get it always looks crisp and smooth. maybe .svg format
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: Mactetra on October 20, 2008, 11:28:52 pm
don't know if this is mentioned, but it should be possible to mirror several meshes at a time, it takes ages to mirror, lets say.. a bowl of peas.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: onespirit5777 on October 21, 2008, 04:11:00 am
I wish you could mirror without have to convert to mesh
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: floyd86 on October 21, 2008, 10:15:40 am
don't know if this is mentioned, but it should be possible to mirror several meshes at a time, it takes ages to mirror, lets say.. a bowl of peas.

Can't you just join solid all the peas and then mirror.

But I do agree, mirroring can have some improvement. symmetry for example, but also just mirroring groups, subdivided and multiple objects. I would make life that bit easier  ;)
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: odp04y on October 21, 2008, 04:25:02 pm
I know this has been mentioned before, but copying and pasting in scene mode would be useful as I was trying to do a physics test with Cre8or earlier. I gave up trying too put enough objects in the scene! :(
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: bamman62 on October 26, 2008, 07:34:05 am


Here is another idea

Extrude Points

Works just like extrude faces, but with points. (What a twist) The below picture will clarify on the purpose. (Excuse the bad organizing had a bad error when saving and had to kinda paint over it)

(http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/5919/75494669hx2.jpg)







Sorry about kinda ignoring the current topic on bone mirroring :P I appreciate the topic being kept alive :D.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: Kubajzz on October 26, 2008, 09:10:47 am
I don't know if I understand it right, but it sounds like you need the edge extrude tool (http://www.anim8or.com/manual/4_object_editor.html#edge_extrude)... I think it does the same like the point extrude tool you're requesting.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: bamman62 on October 26, 2008, 05:16:17 pm
I don't know if I understand it right, but it sounds like you need the edge extrude tool (http://www.anim8or.com/manual/4_object_editor.html#edge_extrude)... I think it does the same like the point extrude tool you're requesting.


I don't think extrude edges works with objects with 0 depth. I did find a good substitute though; add points works fine. :P Sometimes I really just skip over tools that are already there.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: huhftyuu on October 28, 2008, 10:30:07 pm
Something I'm currently having a lot of trouble with: animation of linear motion. While it IS possible to just use 3 bones for it, it's very time-consuming, trying to find the right position for all three just so the object at the end slides back 10 units while facing the same direction.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: floyd86 on October 28, 2008, 10:58:19 pm
Linear motion, can most of the time be done by morphtargets. Which is way easier then doing it with bones.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: Destroyer on October 28, 2008, 11:20:46 pm
Id like to see meta balls implemented into anim8or. not only are they fun to to play around with, there also usefull for anim8ing things like water
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: hihosilver on October 29, 2008, 04:57:13 am
Edge extrude works fine with an object that has 0 depth, as long as it has depth along 2 axis it should be fine (which is the only way to have a face anyways.)
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: bamman62 on November 15, 2008, 10:30:28 pm
Hah, not very god at using edge extrude then.. I can't seem to get it to work on 0 depth objects.

Anyway, I have always desired the ability to disselect individual things...

Spending 5 minutes individually selecting the proper faces turns into a hassle when you accidentally miss one...

Also, real-time modifiers would be nice :P.

Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: Francesco on November 16, 2008, 01:52:47 am
You can deselect points, faces and other stuff by middle-clicking them (or by alt-right-clicking them, as you prefer).
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: bamman62 on November 16, 2008, 02:10:42 am
Thanks :P

I believe I should start compiling a list of ideas that aren't already there.

Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: floyd86 on November 27, 2008, 10:10:10 pm
Sorry to bother you again steve, but i have yet again a small request for anim8or. I know this is probably asked before, but i'd like to point it out once again: Copy and pasting object/figures/elements in scene mode.
Using cre8or, anim8or can now simulate physics. However it's a hell of a job to create a decent scene for it.
Without being able to copy and paste in scene, you will have to manually import all you objects.
When I, i.e, want to build a simple brick wall of a couple of feet heigh/width, i will have to import hundreds of objects. Have the option to copy/paste your objects within scene mode will make this job alot easier. So will generating particles or mutliple figures.

I hope you will consider this function in a next release and i hope other animaters will be as pleased with such an addition as I would be.

-floyd
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: Steve on November 28, 2008, 07:17:16 pm
That's a gppd idea, floyd86.   I'll see if I can do something like that when I work on the Scene editor.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: computeruser28 on December 05, 2008, 09:00:46 am
A small idea that I have is grouping multiple object and/or figures in Scene mode. It would really help with organizing when, for example, you make particles manually and your list is so long you don't really know which one's in which part of the particle effect. I think that grouping them would be better so at least you know which object is with which. I also think that is good to be able to animate them individually while inside a group. Maybe it's just be, but I get quite annoyed if my list gets too long.

Another idea would be about the timeline. Most of the time, when I make a new keyframe in the middle of the sequence, it annoys me to fix the orientation and position of the bone/object (in Scene mode) in the next frames before the following keyframe. It seems that the settings in those empty frames were saved or something. Also when I move a keyframe in Scene mode, there's an extra length between the new position of the frame to the next/previous keyframe (basically where the key was originally placed in the timeline). If the timeline could act somehow like a timeline from a Flash program (recalculating the movements, not saving the movements even on empty frames) so it would be easier to edit the keys on a timeline.

I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. Just reply if you don't and specify which part wasn't clear to you.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: Suppastar on December 07, 2008, 07:51:48 pm
I still say the next thing that needs to be implemented is the ability to use animated texture in anim8or.

(I.E animated .gif files.)

Also, increase the depth of bump/normal maps, even set on 100% it's not very deep. I used a bump map a friend used in MAX in anim8or and it barley showed up, but his was very deep set in on 100%.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: xalener on December 09, 2008, 01:37:25 am
I'm sure you've already heard normal map compatability before, so I'm just going to restate it here.....again.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: Steve on December 15, 2008, 12:22:13 am
xalener, just checking.  What use do you have for a normal map, as a bumpmap?
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: Raxx on December 15, 2008, 05:21:56 am
I would like to discuss this normal map vs bump map thing as well. Normal maps have a definite advantage over bump maps in that it preserves the directions of the detail in the three different channels. Bump maps only perturbs the surface in the direction of the existing normal whereas normal maps replace the normal entirely in the direction(s) the normal map reads out as.

Bump maps on a single polygon always look flat from an angle, but normal maps account for the proper distortion it should have in any angle making for a much more realistic effect. This is why other 3D programs allow for normal map usage instead of regular grayscale bump maps. The difference is tremendous both in-game and in-cinema, especially when it comes to smaller detail.

I found an image that best shows what I mean (a=bump, b=normal, c=relief):
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z232/Z-trooper/Modelling/mappings.png)

Notice the details and how from that angle the normal map version is more accurate and realistic than the bump map version. Definitely an upgrade!

Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: xalener on December 15, 2008, 05:37:03 am
Also, this would help with importing current-gen game models because none of them use greyscale bumps.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: Steve on December 17, 2008, 01:18:47 am
Raxx, there are two ways to use normal maps for bump mapping: normal space and tangent space.  However both are equivalent to bump mapping as supported in Anim8or.  Anim8or converts height images into tangent space normal maps internally to do bump mapping.

It looks like image (b) uses something more like where the texture coordinates are first offset by the bumpmap normal and then that value is used for both the texture color and normal perturbation.  Where did you get that image?  It might have a better explanation.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: xalener on December 17, 2008, 03:21:00 pm
Well, I'd just want normal maps to be able to work in anim8or as bump maps so I wouldn't have to constantly re-paint a greyscale for everything.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: animimanic on December 18, 2008, 01:16:35 am
i hope this doesn't piss anyone off. but anim8or needs a lot of the stuff blender (blender.org) and other animation programs that cost money have. but the great thing about anim8or is how simple it is.

so basically what i'm saying is if the best parts of blender, anim8or, (and whatever great, free programs i can't think of) were to just come together everyone would be happy.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: hihosilver on December 18, 2008, 02:14:11 am
Steve, I don't honestly completely understand how the bumpmaps are calculated.  Basically though, the normal map he's discussing have the R G and B channels.  The program would then use these channels, probably for each pixel, and you could use these to calculate x y and z coordinates to calculate the fake normals that would then be rendered.
Whereas it seems to me from a bumpmap, even if it were changed into a normal map, could only give so much information, as it only includes black and white, enabling only two axis.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: Steve on December 18, 2008, 07:25:59 am
Anim8or creates normal maps exactly like the ones that are shown in these examples as part of what it does internally to draw bumpmaps.  They use all 3 channels red, green and blue, to specify the change in the normal.  But this alone can shift the center of the bumps as image (b) above does.

I can do what xalener has fairly trivially but I can't do what (b) does without first undertand exactly waht it is doing.  It is possiblly using a view-dependent normal map, which is too compute intensive for Anim8or to do.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: Raxx on December 18, 2008, 12:25:14 pm
Well Steve, the problem is that you're asking me to explain something that I think is beyond my level of...technical prowess :P I'm certain there are hundreds of normal map shaders and articles about utilizing normal maps on the web right now.

Some quick links I pulled off of google:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_mapping
http://www.3dkingdoms.com/tutorial.htm

http://gamedev.net might be able to shed some light on the subject
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: Steve on December 21, 2008, 07:25:24 am
Raxx, if you could point me to where you got that image of the 3 different kinds of bumpmapping perhaps I could figure out how they made (b).
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: Raxx on December 21, 2008, 08:01:01 am
Well, I got it from this forum article: http://www.game-artist.net/forums/support/7756-bump-maps-vs-normal-maps.html but aside from the first two posts and the last one, there's not a whole lot of "how" that other articles didn't cover, but it might help.

The blender manual also compares between normal maps and bump maps: http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Manual/Bump_and_Normal_Maps

Really all I do is google "bump vs normal map". Like I mentioned though you'd probably get a better idea if you check out normal map cg/hlsl/glsl shader files...
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: hihosilver on December 22, 2008, 02:47:32 am
Some more links I found:
http://www.highend3d.com/maya/tutorials/texturing/229.html (http://www.highend3d.com/maya/tutorials/texturing/229.html)
http://wiki.polycount.net/Normal_Map (http://wiki.polycount.net/Normal_Map)
http://www.pixologic.com/docs/index.php/Understanding_Normal_Maps (http://www.pixologic.com/docs/index.php/Understanding_Normal_Maps)
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: texel on December 22, 2008, 10:39:58 am
Steve,
Maybe peoples want to be able to directly  load Normal Maps textures instead of greyscale texture to use their own normal maps (computed from Nvidia Melody or something else, and not from Anim8or) and not just the ones computed by Anim8or. Maybe Anim8or can already do that (i have not tested)
Example:
http://planetpixelemporium.com/tutorialpages/images/nlinsample.jjpg.jpg

Maybe peoples also want more depth in the bump map relief. This can be done by more advanced (and slower) technics than simple dot3 Bump Mapping such as paralax Bump Mapping or Relief Mapping (maybe you already use it).

Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: Steve on December 25, 2008, 09:56:14 pm
I understand what you're saying, texel.  I agree that directly loading normal maps would be useful.  Anim8or generates 1: tangent-space normal maps internally from greyscale/hight maps today.  Normal maps can also be modeled in 2: object space and they can be 3: view dependent.

It appears that (b) in the image that Raxx posted *are* view dependent because the center of the bumps are moved up form their origianal position.  Anim8or could be made to support regular normal maps but it cannot support view depedent maps (because the result would be wrong if the viewpoint is moved from what was used to create the map).
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: Suppastar on December 29, 2008, 02:09:04 am
Soooo........ are Normal maps finally down on the list? *Fingers cross*


There are so many programs out now for Normal maps, but Height maps are just in the dark, I haven't found 1 tutorial on how to make them properly. Having real Normal maps could generally improve the render speed's and Bump map(If allow the use of both at the same time of course) quality. Not only that, it will also improve Anim8or in terms of Game development.

Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: Monex on January 27, 2009, 09:37:53 pm
I think I found what the last of Raxx's images is using: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Displacement_mapping. 
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: Water Music on January 29, 2009, 02:38:40 am

I'm kinda out of the loop on these things, but the last I heard displacement mapping support was being considered for DirectX 11.  I've been led to believe that that will make normal maps obsolete, but I have no idea whether or not it is even still on the table.  I linked to this article in an earlier post:  http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/opengl-directx,2019-7.html (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/opengl-directx,2019-7.html) . 
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: texel on January 29, 2009, 08:56:23 am
Displacement mapping is very different from Bump Mapping.

Bumpmapping is an illusion. it creates relief on a flat shape using a special way to compute illumination of each pixel of the shape. There are different technics to create Bump mapping: Emboss Bump Mapping, dot3Bump mapping, Parallax Bump Mapping, Relief Mapping, ... The last technics recquire shaders for real time rendering.

Displacement mapping move each vertex in the direction of its normal, in a distance which depend on the color of the texture on the vertex. It do not recquire Shader, DirectX 11 or OpenGL 3.1. It can be done with CPU. This feature was already available on 3DS Max 1.0 and maybe also before.
Hardware displacement mapping is a way to create displacement mapping in real time using shaders. It is also already available on DirectX 9 and OpenGL using shaders.
I think Hardware Displacement mapping would be less usefull than "CPU" Displacement Mapping.
Displacement mapping is not better than Bump Mapping because it recquire more vertices and faces ("to move"). It's just different.


Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: odp04y on January 29, 2009, 05:56:28 pm
Would parallax (virtual displacment) mapping not work?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax_mapping (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax_mapping)
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: xalener on February 01, 2009, 04:51:00 pm
I can do what xalener has fairly trivially

DOES THAT MEAN YOU'll DO IT!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: Suppastar on February 02, 2009, 08:14:51 pm
Hey Steve, I found a site that has images of the what the code does and the source codes for OPENGL. It even has some DX 8.1 code that you might be able to use or scavenge from.

http://www.zanir.szm.sk/dx10-19.html
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: bamman62 on February 04, 2009, 05:49:16 pm
Once again, glad to see this thing going twice as well without me.

*Puts on his normal map hat

I would love to see a bunch of these features included in the next release. Especially a few new texturing things that could make a significant impact on the quality of renders.

Parallax mapping looks amazing in my opinion.

Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: Modeler_in_the_Myst on February 04, 2009, 09:47:56 pm
I am no programmer, so how implementable this is, is way beyond me.
But what if, as variation of the Insert tool in face editing, instead of  adding a smaller copy of the face inside, you insert a smaller polygon, with a menu for how many faces you want the inserted polygon to have.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: greengrowus on February 07, 2009, 11:54:51 am
For perhaps a not-to-distant release: Reference video for keyframes, or at least reference stills in the scene mode.

I composite an8 animations onto real video and this would greatly aid the process.

Thanks.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: $imon on February 07, 2009, 12:33:49 pm
- being able to bridge edges, not just faces.. I use this option SO much in 3ds max while modeling, it greatly improves the speed.
- the bevel tool now bevels according to the size of the attached poly.. whereas in Most of the occasions you want to bevel an edge evenly on both sides.. so it would be nice if beveling would make a angle half the angle of the original polies, instead of the way it is now.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: floyd86 on February 07, 2009, 12:43:41 pm
For perhaps a not-to-distant release: Reference video for keyframes, or at least reference stills in the scene mode.

I composite an8 animations onto real video and this would greatly aid the process.

Thanks.

You can ofcourse just texture a flat plane with your background and import it in scene mode as an object. This is a way around ofcourse, import video or picture references in scene mode would be nice.

I agree with simon too, bridging edge would make edgelooping way easier.
Same for the bevel tool. This would be helpfull when converting your model to subdivided to smooth the model.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: xalener on February 08, 2009, 04:26:37 am
For perhaps a not-to-distant release: Reference video for keyframes, or at least reference stills in the scene mode.

I composite an8 animations onto real video and this would greatly aid the process.

Thanks.

I've longed for that for EVER.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: Gus on February 10, 2009, 12:02:36 pm
texture animating would be great :D
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: xalener on February 11, 2009, 02:02:40 am
Can you post a minny program update with the Normal bump compatability?? rofl...
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: siragin on February 27, 2009, 01:40:58 am
A feature that I think would be good is a .mdd importer and exporter. But I don't know anything about this knd of thing, so I don't know how hard this would be.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: captaindrewi on February 27, 2009, 02:05:43 pm
sorry about this post, it's obviously not easily done as it would have been done by now.
but i would like to know..... why not the inclusion of a flexible lassoo tool ?
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: spicy on March 02, 2009, 04:47:41 pm
Personally I would like to see anim8or glitch free and then concentrate on new features, but hey I want to see some cool new features that will expand anim8or!
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: bamman62 on March 03, 2009, 02:17:59 am
Personally I would like to see anim8or glitch free and then concentrate on new features, but hey I want to see some cool new features that will expand anim8or!

:P I think that is what the timed save feature is for. (If it does mess up, it saves some of your work :D)

Also, if it works like anything else I have ever used, bug fixing comes after the 1.0 after some fatal error that nobody expected.

Anyway, I agree with siragin, I think that around the .99 preview, a overhaul of common filetypes should be added to Anim8or's native program (No plugins needed). It would give it a professional 'crisp'. Also, if possible, animation exporters should be added for certain filetypes.

Also, like most other 3d programs, a little three edged bar that represents an axis pops up when moving points, it would be nice to have this feature added in order to save time on snapping to angles. Also, control over multiple axises (Firefox had no problem with the spelling on this) when scaling faces would also save the time of switching to point edit mode.

(More stuff) (With priority level on a scale of 1-10)

Real Time Axis Mirroring 8
Edge smoothing (Not sure if that is already there) 6
Simple Physics (Bounding boxes, gravity, etc.) 4
Particles (Would save a ton of time that would normally be spent going between Terranim8or and anim8or) 3
Color Schemes (Not necessary, but it would be a nice addition) 2
Movie File Backgrounds (Has been suggested numerous time before, and would be really cool) 9
Pre-made render settings and environments (For quick updates in a WIP) 6
Internal UV mapper 2

Also, hopefully it would be simple to add reference images with a default Z location of -.1 instead of zero. (Points being blocked)
(Also, is transparency allowed in imported images?)

Even more! A glitch free anim8or is our responsibility. (We test it by using it)

Anyway, I think that is my post for the month so :P.

Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: Tanzim on March 03, 2009, 09:09:55 am
I'd rather have a glitch free program than one with just a lot of neat features.
Siragin: Steve is adding realtime axis mirroring. For edge smoothing, there's already smooth angle but if you mean like some edges smooth and others sharp then you might have to wait.

The only thing I'd like to currently see is edge extrusions, we can extrude a whole face but modeling would easier with just extruding edges.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: floyd86 on March 03, 2009, 09:48:56 am
I'd rather have a glitch free program than one with just a lot of neat features.
Siragin: Steve is adding realtime axis mirroring. For edge smoothing, there's already smooth angle but if you mean like some edges smooth and others sharp then you might have to wait.

The only thing I'd like to currently see is edge extrusions, we can extrude a whole face but modeling would easier with just extruding edges.

Smoothing individual edge is already possible, select the edges you want to smooth and go edit>edge properties. Here you can smooth, crease of round the edge.
Same goes for extruding edges: just use the extrude edge tool (shift+E i believe). Or do you mean something else with extruding edges?
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: siragin on March 03, 2009, 04:07:49 pm
I didn't ask for the smoothing edges that was bamman62. I asked for the .mdd importer exporter, but ok.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: spicy on March 03, 2009, 05:45:40 pm
Although we have a glitch save feature, there are many internal glitches like file corruption (It happened to me and I was very unhappy :( ).
With every release of anim8or there are bound to be mistakes and glitches but its better to try to get rid of most glitches and then move onto new features and so on. :)
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: bamman62 on March 05, 2009, 03:07:09 am
I'd rather have a glitch free program than one with just a lot of neat features.
Siragin: Steve is adding realtime axis mirroring. For edge smoothing, there's already smooth angle but if you mean like some edges smooth and others sharp then you might have to wait.

The only thing I'd like to currently see is edge extrusions, we can extrude a whole face but modeling would easier with just extruding edges.

Smoothing individual edge is already possible, select the edges you want to smooth and go edit>edge properties. Here you can smooth, crease of round the edge.
Same goes for extruding edges: just use the extrude edge tool (shift+E i believe). Or do you mean something else with extruding edges?

By smoothing edges, I mean actually deforming the mesh based on set edge parameters. Sorta like the subdivide faces feature, but with without the whole subdividing thing. (Is there already a feature for this? The smooth edge tool is more like a selective smooth angle if I recall correctly)

Something like this,

Select edges, click smooth edges, insert the tension desired, the selected edges will be smoothed relative to the surrounding edges.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: selden on March 10, 2009, 05:24:17 pm
Like Bamman62, I've been reading through all the docs trying to find a "make edge round" command, but haven't found one. My current workaround only works for four of the edges of a rectangular object: I make a cylinder and stretch its quadrants to become the edges. Presumably one can do the same with a sphere, but it's a lot harder to select the 8 "corners".
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: $imon on March 10, 2009, 05:52:39 pm
selden: If you are looking to make a corner rounded, you can select the corner-line and use the 'bevel' tool to divide it into two lines, the more often you do this, the smoother the corner will be.. try it out!
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: selden on March 10, 2009, 06:15:55 pm
$imon,

Thanks for the reminder about bevel!

Unfortunately, it doesn't do what I want :( At least not easily.

I'd like to round off all the edges and corners of a "cube". In other words, I think that
I'd like to do multiple levels of bevelling on each edge of a "cube", including the intersecting corners. Multiple clicks while the bevel operator is selected does very strange things. One has to go back and select "edge selection", select one of the new edges, then bevel just that one edge. That's a lot of work. And it does nothing for the corners :(
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: $imon on March 10, 2009, 06:40:23 pm
Hm, I know what you mean when you say that it messes up with the bevel tool.. But i couldnt think of an alternative other than NURBS modeling, do you have an example of how this could be done? ^,^
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: bamman62 on March 10, 2009, 07:02:15 pm
:P I am not talking about the polygon count changing any.

No new edges will be added, the mesh will simply move selected edges to a specific location based around the surrounding edges. The entered tension will make up an important part of the degree to which it is smoothed.

Something like this could be used to save a lot of time on objects with varying polygon densities. Otherwise, you could spend hours individually moving the points.

(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/3390/beforeafterw.jpg)

Sorry about the quality, did it quickly in MS Paint.

Anyway, it could be used on objects with thousands of polygons.

Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: selden on March 10, 2009, 09:42:21 pm
bamman62,

Unfortunately, your example is a large increase in polygon count, with more needed as the smoothness of the edges is improved.

My "cubes" start with only 8 vertices while your example has almost 1000. Your example could be reduced to about 300, though. (Only three sets are needed in the long dimension, not 10.)
My "cut a cylinder" hack has only about 40 vertices. (20 at each end)

I'm designing models for realtime 3D graphics, so low poly count is essential.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: bamman62 on March 10, 2009, 11:08:35 pm
Huh? I made the original model have more polygons to display the general purpose a little better than I could normally.

The point is no polygonal increase from the base mesh, it would work with any model with any number of polygons. The point is, it is an operation in which the original polygon count never changes. It would be particularly useful in models where you are curving a non-smooth polygon into a smooth polygon.

Anyway, if I did it with a cube it wouldn't really do anything significant.

To put it simply, the polycount in the above thing never changed, I just made the cube have a larger polycount so that the operation would be used in a realistic situation.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: selden on March 10, 2009, 11:50:28 pm
Thanks for clarifying.

I did the equivalent (I think) with the parallelopipeds I've been working with:
cut them across several times near the ends, selected the vertices created by the cut, and did an appropriately sized uniform shrink: I shrank the vertices at the end of the box more than the ones closer to the center.

It'd be really nice if this didn't have to be done manually: which was the feature request.




Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: bamman62 on March 11, 2009, 03:44:59 am
Hopefully this will all be added in by the 1.0 release.

I've always done that by extruding the faces and scaling them each time.

Anyway, is it possible to have multi-core threading in Anim8or in order to improve performance?

Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: $imon on March 12, 2009, 01:30:41 pm
If you set a z-depth, then render, then try to render again, the settings for z-depth are gone.. Maybe they can be stored just like the render dimensions?
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: $imon on March 16, 2009, 04:36:08 pm
Also, maybe the Fresnel equations used for the dielectric material could be used somehow to make a fresnel option to all reflections. This would cause more lifelike renderings to be possible & it doesnt sound like it should be too hard to implement (though i could be wrong)
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: Anton on March 22, 2009, 08:40:35 am
Mabe selecting the faces around a certain point that u want to bend or rotate to animate with with faces???(steve , please just keep anim8or freeware! :) )
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: bamman62 on March 23, 2009, 12:58:20 am
Mabe selecting the faces around a certain point that u want to bend or rotate to animate with with faces???(steve , please just keep anim8or freeware! :) )

So, you mean selecting a certain area to be the center of a modifier, in morphing and deformations?

It would be easier if a focus area could be more easily chosen, personally I think modifiers are on of the most useful features, and that their lack of a more intuitive interface is what really holds them back. Also, is it possible to apply multiple modifiers on the same mesh at the same time?

(Anyway, I wouldn't mind if anim8or had a licensing fee, as long as the members before the change got free lifetime subscriptions :P)
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: 3D Joe Wiltshire on March 24, 2009, 04:58:07 pm
I have a suggestion, don't know if it would be possible inside of anim8or, but would be awesome if it was.

A render mode that renders an AO and Normal Pass, and combines them in one image.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: Suppastar on March 25, 2009, 11:06:22 pm
Not sure if this has been explained or if there is way around this?   

The ability to zoom in on objects with a reference image in workspace. For some reason if i have a reference image in-place and do the normal "Frame Selected" it wont allow to "zoom" in.

Does anim8or have an magnifying glass BTW?
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: Anton on March 27, 2009, 01:04:58 pm
I mean if you have a mesh you could for example have a tiger, selecting the faces around his neck to move and rotate his neck. ;) (not well explained)
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: Tanzim on March 28, 2009, 12:53:31 am
Well, if you did it like that the rest of the head wouldn't move and would look weird, that's why you have the Figure Editor, and the Sequence Editor.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: bamman62 on March 28, 2009, 05:07:46 am
Like Tanzim said, in order to perform non mesh operations, you need to mess around in figure mode. It allows you to assign certain meshes to certain bones, the mesh is tied to the bone and nothing else (Which allows the operation you desired to occur by rotating the bone).

Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: odp04y on April 26, 2009, 04:30:52 pm
2 suggestions:

1. Would it be possible to have the selected object/bone/camera etc. propeties in a toolbar on the right, which can be changed without having to doubleclick the  object.

2. For a future release it would be nice if rendering could be done on the GPU as well as CPU.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: Blackroo67 on May 17, 2009, 10:12:35 pm
I'm kind of new here, but I agree about having a
lasso tool for precision point selection... even if it
is in an ASL-based plug-in.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: im not a people person73 on June 09, 2009, 09:18:54 pm
i like morph sliders.they make things more realistic and there is more instances of not moving to the predetermined morph. what i'm attempting to say is that it would be alot easier to give the object more fluidity,when you view the morph changing in real time.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: xalener on June 30, 2009, 09:45:45 pm
Heck yeah. Mpr[h sliders would make everything a LOT easier.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: Paulo on July 16, 2009, 08:26:21 pm
I don't know if it was already said (this topic is so long !) but it will be very nice if we could load a whole folder of textures, or several textures in one time ! As one by one is so boring... That's all :)
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: lynn22 on July 16, 2009, 10:50:36 pm
I recently had the same idea since I'm using a number of textures over and over again in my big project and having the ability to create a materials library would make things easier. But ...

It would also mean that Anim8or would have to be initially installed in a directory that it recognizes so that it knows where to look by default instead of now us having the ability to assign directories for each project.
Title: Re: A list of ideas for anim8or
Post by: bamman62 on July 23, 2009, 12:47:24 am
It could be a parameter that can be saved as part of an individual project.