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General Category => Anim8or v0.98 Discussion Forum => Topic started by: cumesoftware on January 16, 2008, 05:34:29 pm

Title: Implementation of PNG in v0.96 or v0.97
Post by: cumesoftware on January 16, 2008, 05:34:29 pm
It would be a big jump for Anim8or to support other formats than BMP or JPEG. There is the possibility of some formats being proprietary, but that is not the case of PNG. Basically, my idea is to implement the PNG format both when importing textures or rendering images.

PNG is a lossy compressed format that supports 32bit images, it even supports 16bit per channel (making 48bits per pixel). This makes PNG suitable for this application, where a true color image is needed and quality with compression is important too. The PNG standard is completely patent free, so it can be used with no restrictions. Also, PNG support is increasing through out the world. Many aplications already support it.

The only negative aspect is that the standard might take some time to implement in this program, so perhaps it is to be implemented in v0.97. I would recommend PNG Specification, version 1.2, which is entirely compatible with the joint W3C and ISO/IEC version, and perhaps the most used.
Title: Re: Implementation of PNG in v0.96 or v0.97
Post by: anim8orblenderman on January 24, 2008, 12:33:26 am
What's PNG?Any pictures in PNG?Is the quality better or worse?
Title: Re: Implementation of PNG in v0.96 or v0.97
Post by: cumesoftware on January 24, 2008, 12:56:05 am
What's PNG?Any pictures in PNG?Is the quality better or worse?
The quality is better than JPEG. PNG is a lossless compressed format, while JPEG uses lossy compression to store a image. This means that a JPEG image will have distortion, even when saved with the best quality. Consider a PNG image as a zipped BMP ready to be seen with any browser.

You can google for "PNG" to see images as well.

P.S.: The PNG implementation is pretty much done. You can get the official PNGLib for free.
Title: Re: Implementation of PNG in v0.96 or v0.97
Post by: Dasoccerguy on January 25, 2008, 02:43:28 am
PNG support would be a WONDERFUL addition.

not to change the subject, but i think  animated GIF support would be useful, in both importing and exporting. i know there are programs that turn a series of still images into an animated GIF, but it could be very useful if Anim8or could render Anim8ed GIFs.
Title: Re: Implementation of PNG in v0.96 or v0.97
Post by: reversegecko on January 30, 2008, 01:05:08 am
Hey guys, just a few thoughts about how PNG  support would help anim8or users:

- PNG has support for an alpha channel (not just all-or-none alpha as in GIF), which many game engines use since it reduces the work of the artist who otherwise has to make two textures and load them, it also is more work for script writers or programmers working with anim8or.

- Lossy compression is not that bad when saved once, but often times when creating content for a video or a game things get continually improved and each time a texture is changed and saved as a jpeg, its quality degrades futher. We do have lossless compression with BMP and GIF, however file size of BMP and color limitations of GIF and lack of good alpha support for both make them not ideal in many circumstances. I understand that BMP does support compression but that feature seems to go mostly unused.

Those are just some things that came up when working on electropy (http://www.electropy.com).
Title: Re: Implementation of PNG in v0.96 or v0.97
Post by: anim8orblenderman on February 03, 2008, 07:07:05 pm
Blender has PNG.Though what you might be able to do is take a anim8or file save as .3d not .an8 and export to blender and render.
Dunno if this works.Jest a guess.
Title: Re: Implementation of PNG in v0.96 or v0.97
Post by: csf on February 15, 2008, 06:38:27 am
Png would be a great feature.
Title: Re: Implementation of PNG in v0.96 or v0.97
Post by: cumesoftware on February 19, 2008, 02:12:38 pm
...Lossy compression is not that bad when saved once, but often times when creating content for a video or a game things get continually improved and each time a texture is changed and saved as a jpeg, its quality degrades futher. We do have lossless compression with BMP and GIF, however file size of BMP and color limitations of GIF and lack of good alpha support for both make them not ideal in many circumstances. I understand that BMP does support compression but that feature seems to go mostly unused...
Just to add a point:
The compression used in the PNG format is lossless as well. You can load and save a PNG image as many times you wish, and all of its pixels will be fully preserved. JPEG may be handy, but even when saved using the best of quality (and smallest compression) the image will be degraded.
Title: Re: Implementation of PNG in v0.96 or v0.97
Post by: azonenberg on February 19, 2008, 04:46:14 pm
I would love to see the ability to export alpha channels, whether as a separate BMP (like the depth channel) or as a combined PNG
Title: Re: Implementation of PNG in v0.96 or v0.97
Post by: hihosilver on February 20, 2008, 08:01:03 am
You can currently export the alpha channel as a .bmp or .jpg
I do agree with this though, .png's would be nice.
Title: Re: Implementation of PNG in v0.96 or v0.97
Post by: cumesoftware on March 29, 2008, 12:11:11 am
I would love to see the ability to export alpha channels, whether as a separate BMP (like the depth channel) or as a combined PNG
Indeed, as long as the user, when exporting to PNG, could export as a single combined PNG or as two PNGs, one containing the alpha channel. Importing combined PNGs would be good, too. Nevertheless, simply implementing PNGs would be a great step, since I expect it to be very complex and troublesome.
Title: Re: Implementation of PNG in v0.96 or v0.97
Post by: thecolclough on March 31, 2008, 09:20:44 pm
i only discovered the joys of the PNG format quite recently, but i really like it now.  i'll jump on the bandwagon and join in the request for PNG implementation in anim8or.  *jumps*

- colclough
Title: Re: Implementation of PNG in v0.96 or v0.97
Post by: flametiger74 on March 31, 2008, 11:07:42 pm
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but another good thing about PNG is that it supports invisible pixels. Instead of a texture having be be a texture in the middle with a white background it would be a texture in the middle and that would be it.
Title: Re: Implementation of PNG in v0.96 or v0.97
Post by: cumesoftware on April 04, 2008, 01:18:06 pm
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but another good thing about PNG is that it supports invisible pixels. Instead of a texture having be be a texture in the middle with a white background it would be a texture in the middle and that would be it.
Never heard about that feature of PNG. Are you referring to invisible pixels as hidden pixels (an additional layer), or as transparent pixels (alpha channel)?
Title: Re: Implementation of PNG in v0.96 or v0.97
Post by: thecolclough on April 04, 2008, 02:18:15 pm
i think flametiger's probably on about alpha channels.

right, flametiger?

- colclough
Title: Re: Implementation of PNG in v0.96 or v0.97
Post by: Paulo on July 10, 2009, 06:32:27 pm
Great Idea ! It would be very nice !
Title: Re: Implementation of PNG in v0.96 or v0.97
Post by: bamman62 on August 07, 2009, 01:56:11 am
Here is a short list of some popular formats.

BMP
GIF
JPEG
PNG
TIFF'
TGA
DDS*

*I wouldn't call it common, but it is a versatile format that I am fairly sure is lossless. (And functions in an OpenGL environment IIRC)
Click Me to See What DDS Files Are! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectDraw_Surface)
Title: Re: Implementation of PNG in v0.96 or v0.97
Post by: Jehovahenker on August 26, 2009, 04:37:42 pm
+1 for the GIF, I hate it to convert a video to gif...
Title: Re: Implementation of PNG in v0.96 or v0.97
Post by: inky84 on August 31, 2009, 08:00:41 am
PNG would be a really great addition to anim8or, I must admit.
Title: Re: Implementation of PNG in v0.96 or v0.97
Post by: TheBlackHole on October 13, 2009, 02:20:51 am
PNG would help me in my nebula models for Celestia. So add support for PNG and Animated GIF or else I'll explode! Lol, not really (I mean about the exploding part.)   :D
Title: Re: Implementation of PNG in v0.96 or v0.97
Post by: an8freaky on January 01, 2010, 12:14:23 pm
PNG would be awesome!  ;D and I would love DDS support.