Anim8or Community

Artwork => Finished Works and Works in Progress => Topic started by: Kain on April 24, 2010, 04:04:06 pm

Title: [WIP] My furry comic character, Lila
Post by: Kain on April 24, 2010, 04:04:06 pm
Hello, I'm new to Anim8or and 3D Animation in general, and I'm glad I found an easy and free program to help me satisfy my creativity.

After I tried the Eggplant and a random plant, I wanted to experiment in making characters. I, of course, did not know how, so I started by adding points. As a reference image, I used a comic character of mine, based on my cat, Lila.

(http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/3075/90553588.jpg)

My first try was a real mess, so I deleted it. After some search, I found the "Joan of Ark" tutorial, that gave me a good way to start. That tutorial is, so far, doable and very easy in Anim8or. This is how far I've got, in about 3-4 hours of work.

(http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/8241/lilay.jpg)

It is very early, I assume, to make a judgement, so if anyone has any useful tips to help me continue, they would be appreciated. I use only the shown reference image.

Also, I have to say at this point that I work   v e r y    s l o w l y , so I guess it would be some time before my next addition.

Also, please excuse any errors you may find in my writing, since English is not my native language.

Glad I found you all.  ;D
Title: Re: [WIP] My furry comic character, Lila
Post by: Arik_the_Red on April 24, 2010, 04:19:38 pm
Very nice start, and I look forward to seeing more!  If you are a "furry fan," you should get in touch with TT_Snim (oldtimer here, but not around alot). TT has a large collection of furry art she has done in 2D.
Title: Re: [WIP] My furry comic character, Lila
Post by: 3Dgeek11 on April 25, 2010, 01:50:22 am
Very good for a first! I'm somewhat what you may call a "furry fan". ;)

Nice start, and thanks for saying that the Joan of Ark tutorial is easy in Anim8or. I've never looked at it to be quite honest. Thought it'd be too hard.

I don't really have any advice. But I will say it's looking good, and I can't wait to see more. :)
Welcome the Anim8or Community! Enjoy your stay here! ;)
3DGeek
Title: Re: [WIP] My furry comic character, Lila
Post by: Kain on April 26, 2010, 10:01:08 am
Thanks everyone.  ;D
I'm not really into furries, at least not more than I'm into anything else I like. I made this character inspired by a comic I like, called "Blacksad", where the hero is a cat and all the characters are animals, even though the stories are dark and serious, and I used my own cat as a model.

I worked a bit more on my model, following, as always, the Tutorial stap by step, and I ran into my first problem. The eyeball does not exactly fit in the eyelids. If I start rotating the model, there are some gaps between the eyelid and the eyeball, and that's probably bacause the sphere I used is very Low-Poly. I'm afraid, though, that it might be too much work to adjust the eyelids after I finish and subdivide, especially since I'm planning to animate the character afterwards to make short movies, which means that the eyeball has to fit perfectly on every angle, and be able to rotate so the eyes can move. Any advice?

(http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/3162/lilar.jpg)
Title: Re: [WIP] My furry comic character, Lila
Post by: ADSohr on April 26, 2010, 12:57:44 pm
I'm not much of an expert modeler, but what you could do is reinforce the eyelids some more to help after you subdivide, and then close the hole for the eyes.

To make the eyelids "form" to the eyeballs, select all of the edges that make up the hole for the eye and then fill with a face. Then select the new face where the eyeball is supposed to be and use the triangle extrude(the one that creates a single point in the middle of the face and moves it along the face normal pulling the face out into something like a pyramid) to pull the eyelid inside the head of your charachter. Now when you put the eyeball in there should be no gaps. Don't worry about the overlaping areas.
Title: Re: [WIP] My furry comic character, Lila
Post by: ENSONIQ5 on April 26, 2010, 01:16:23 pm
Why does the eye ball have to fit the socket exactly?  Why can't the socket edges extend into the eyeball itself a little bit?
Title: Re: [WIP] My furry comic character, Lila
Post by: Kain on April 26, 2010, 02:14:17 pm
I had the impression that overlapping edges would produce problems in animation. If I was mistaken, then the problem solved itself, I'll just have to extend the socket edges a little inwards and move the eyeball a bit forward. Thanx. :)
Title: Re: [WIP] My furry comic character, Lila
Post by: hihosilver on April 26, 2010, 03:26:36 pm
There will be no issues if edges overlap.  So no worries your problem is solved!
Also keep in mind that you can subdivide before you finish modeling.  If you select the model and go "Build>Convert to Subdivided" your model will turn into a subdivision object.  Afterwards, if you would like to return to the original mesh you can double click the object, and change the "working" setting to 0.  You can then convert to mesh after that, leaving you with your base mesh again.
Title: Re: [WIP] My furry comic character, Lila
Post by: $imon on April 26, 2010, 03:59:01 pm
Can I just state an obvious fact: Thats some awesome modeling for a beginner! The joan of arc tutorial is a great way to start & set a high reference point for yourself from the beginning.

Your model is looking great, a note about the 'edge loops' , the forehead area has a bit too many points together, this will be hard to smooth out when subdividing. Here is how you could fix it by spreading the lines a bit (sorry for drawing over your model!):

(http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/6246/loopsu.jpg)

It's just an idea, you might want to move the points around a bit to fit your model.

Fewer points = better control over the model. Basically only add points if they are completely necessary, so only to add detail to the model. The forehead is a smooth surface usually, so keeping the point count low will allow for a better flowing model.

Also, in the area I just drew the points, make sure the forehead is one big flowing line, and doesnt go inwards above the nose. from brow-brow is one straight line, if that makes sense :p

Great job & good luck with the rest of your character! i can't wait to see it.
Title: Re: [WIP] My furry comic character, Lila
Post by: Josmic8or on April 26, 2010, 07:04:59 pm
Welcome to the Anim8or Forums! :) :) :)
First of all I must say that this is some excellent work for a beginner ;)
I was just wondering why you didn't put a side view reference image of Lila? ???
It would make it more easier for you to model her sideways.

Anyway I think you're doing a great job so far! :) :)
Keep it UP!
Title: Re: [WIP] My furry comic character, Lila
Post by: daniel99 on April 26, 2010, 07:54:32 pm
You are progressing. Soon, try a clay render.
Title: Re: [WIP] My furry comic character, Lila
Post by: Kain on April 26, 2010, 10:47:49 pm
Thanks everybody!  ;D  I worked a bit more on my model, and almost finished the scull.

@$imon: I knew there was something wrong in that area. I'm not quite sure what exactly you mean by the forehead being a big line, though. I also decided to keep all my points, since that way it would be more loyal to the Tutorial. Thanks for the helping hand there.  :)

@Josmic8or: I'm not a very good artist, and I could not draw a side sketch of Lila with exactly the same proportions, so I could only use one image for a reference. The problems with using only one image, though, are starting to show, since the scull came to be too stretched on the vertical level, and I had to do some more work to get it right, stretching it horizontally line by line. Also, the face is way too flat, as you can see on the Top view, so I'll have to make extra effort to round it some time.

(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/8976/lilaon.jpg)
Title: Re: [WIP] My furry comic character, Lila
Post by: rellik420 on April 27, 2010, 06:01:49 pm
lookin good so far. what i think you should work on is the brow. in your ref image the bunny looks mad. if you focus on that part right now it will be better off if you want to try and animate it or pose it.

and for the side. it doesnt look like the character is meant to be round. i think it is supposed to be a little flat. maybe when u get the cheeks in youll be able to adjust it better since you dont have a reference for it.

good luck your doing great so far
Title: Re: [WIP] My furry comic character, Lila
Post by: 3Dgeek11 on April 28, 2010, 03:40:19 am
I believe he/she is modeling the skull mostly, right now, rellik. I think later they'll add the ears, hair and such. But what do I know..?

Good job so far, keep it up. :)
Title: Re: [WIP] My furry comic character, Lila
Post by: rellik420 on April 28, 2010, 04:31:50 am
yea i kinda figured that. but ive worked with models that lacked ref images. and its easy to get lost. but from what i found when u dont really have anything to go off of, is find a focal point. for me it makes it alot easier in the long run.

but its all a learning process im sure every has something that works for them. just dont do what i do and give up on it so quickly. just keep plugging away at it and you will defenitly get good results. have fun
Title: Re: [WIP] My furry comic character, Lila
Post by: Kain on May 22, 2010, 06:41:35 am
I made some progress, added the cheeks and the jaw. It needs some corrections, and I do have to make the face more round, because when I mirror it, she looks like E.T.. I follow the tutorial step by step, and it makes things very easy, even on the harder parts. Next, I'll insert the pointed tuft of fur in the cheek. No tutorial for that, so I'll have to improvise.

(http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/2968/lilahead.jpg)

Quote
in your ref image the bunny looks mad.
Why why WHY did you have to do this to me? She is supposed to be a cat. Now I can't see her as anything else but a bunny! And I drew her, for Pete's sake!  :o  :P

Seriously, she is supposed to look tough in the pic, but I want to animate her later on, so I need her face to be neutral for the model.
Title: Re: [WIP] My furry comic character, Lila
Post by: 3Dgeek11 on May 22, 2010, 07:12:59 am
Looking better every time you post. I'm not good at that kind of modeling so I can't give any tips. I'm more of a box-ish modeling guy. :P
Good luck!

You're using the Joan of Arc tutorial?
Title: Re: [WIP] My furry comic character, Lila
Post by: $imon on May 22, 2010, 09:29:12 am
Good to see youre still on top of this! Making good progress.. You might want to fix the cheek a little bit though, yes that horizontal line is a bit out of place ;) Hope you can find a way around it.

Keep it up & keep us posted! looking good.
Title: Re: [WIP] My furry comic character, Lila
Post by: Kain on September 08, 2010, 10:37:15 am
Yup! Still at it. I told you I work really slowly. Not a particular reason, though, I'm just lazy.  8)

I tried to make the nose, but the Joan of Ark Tutorial proved useless when you try to make a cat's nose, so I'll leave it for now and try to improvise when the time comes. So I made the mouth instead. It would have been ready a loooong time ago, but every time I tried to move some points in the mouth to make micro-adjustments Anim8or crashed for some reason, destroying a long hour's work and shattering my nerves. I made it, though, after many tries, and now Lila has a mouth. I would say it's a bad thing to be one of the first to give to a female, but she still has no voice, so we're safe.  ;D  I also tried to round her face a bit, but it still needs some work. Still needs many fixes. Working with just one reference image is hard, especially when you are a beginner like me.

Also, I still see her as a bunny, even though I made her based on my cat!  :-\

I like the mouth. I have to fix a bit the area around it, though...

(http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/8248/lilanose.png)
Title: Re: [WIP] My furry comic character, Lila
Post by: 3Dgeek11 on September 08, 2010, 11:38:52 pm
Well, I'm glad you are still working on it. I had forgotten about this project!
The new screenshots look great. :)
Show us some more progress soon, k? :)
Title: Re: [WIP] My furry comic character, Lila
Post by: Kain on September 12, 2010, 09:48:30 pm
I made some corrections. It still needs some more, but only minor this time. Next thing I'll do is to complete the skull and the neck, and the easy part will be done. Then I'll have to do the nose, the pointed tuft of fur in the cheek, the ears and the hair. I just patched up the nose, to start working at its details with extrusions to make it a detailed cat's nose.

(http://growabrain.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/02/17/cat_nose.jpg)

I tried a few things, but it is more difficult than I imagined, and I'll leave it for later. I intend to extrude the upper "line" of the current nose, and start making a T-shape. If anyone has a better idea or an advice about the cat's nose, it would be appreciated.

(http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/1138/lilacorrected.png)

I also tried to make a Subdivided render to see how it looks.

(http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/7512/lilarender.png)

...And a mirrored one. For some reason, the "Merge Points" function didn't work.

(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/3052/lilarender2.jpg)
Title: Re: [WIP] My furry comic character, Lila
Post by: Mills on September 12, 2010, 10:42:26 pm
Hi Kain - Good looking work. If merge points doesn't work, it's normally because your trying to merge points on separate meshes. You need to select both halves and choose 'Build' > 'Join Solids' first, then use the merge points. Might not be the problem in this case, but it always used to catch me out.
Title: Re: [WIP] My furry comic character, Lila
Post by: CoriDavis on September 13, 2010, 07:38:05 pm
it looks good to me, (that nose kind of scared me, lol) I think it will look good once you have the ears on and maybe some fur.
Title: Re: [WIP] My furry comic character, Lila
Post by: Janro on September 16, 2010, 11:23:41 pm
Pretty good start Kain. As Mills said you may have to join the meshes. But you'll have to convert it back to mesh before you can join solids. Just make sure to set subdivision to zero to preserve your un-subdivided frame before converting.

As to it looking like a bunny, this happens from time to time. Sometimes some designs don't translate to well in 3D and wind up looking like something else. Heck my first cat character looked(still does actually to an extent)  like a fox. If you trust your reference image just keep going. Sometimes it solves itself as you near completion.
Title: Re: [WIP] My furry comic character, Lila
Post by: rellik420 on September 17, 2010, 01:00:29 pm
u might want to have the mouth open. i think it will be easier to have that as a base for when you go to do some morphs on it. it already looks good while its closed so it shouldnt be too hard to open it up a bit.

about your reference pic. the more you work on it the more it will look like the reference. but it doesnt have to be exactly the same. and since the reference is really basic its only going to kind of look like it anyways.

your doing really good so far. so just keep plugging away at it and youll get some good results.
Title: Re: [WIP] My furry comic character, Lila
Post by: Kain on November 06, 2010, 07:22:01 pm
Thanks everyone, that was the problem, I tried to connect the meshes before joining them. I'll try to remember it.

I have almost finished modelling the head, and soon I'll post some new screenshots. Right now I only have to do some details, the nose, and put them all together. I already made the ear in a seperate file, and I think I'll make the nose the same way, since it's impossible for me to do it with extrusions.

The purpose of this post, though, is to ask some questions.

First of all, does anyone know where can I find hairgen.zip, a hair generator for Anim8or? The link I have does not work at all. Also, if I manage to find it, do you think it would be better to use this for Lila's hair, or should I use another method?

Secondly, as you can see at the sketch to the first post of the topic, Lila is wearing a Karate-gi and a sweater, both very loose, which means they'll have to wave when the character moves. Can Anim8or actually do that, or will I have to do it manually?

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: [WIP] My furry comic character, Lila
Post by: davdud101 on November 06, 2010, 07:47:57 pm
you could use either morph targets or when building your figure make seperate bones branching off which connect to the waving parts. Nice work so far!
Title: Re: [WIP] My furry comic character, Lila
Post by: Janro on November 11, 2010, 09:58:54 am
Automated like cloth simulation: No, sadly.

Davidud already summarized your options so far when it comes to trying to fake the loose clothing. Will take some planning for both methods.
Title: Re: [WIP] My furry comic character, Lila
Post by: Kain on December 13, 2010, 10:03:52 pm
I'm still at it, although I go really slowly. I finished the core head and the ear, now I just have to do the nose, hair and body. The nose has proven itself to be the most difficult thing in the history of ever, so it will take some time and a LOT of effort to be done.

I have not decided yet about the size and placement of the ear, since when I placed it according to the reference image the cat looked like a donkey. Also, it's really difficult to connect the ear to the head.

I still have not found the hairgen, and I don't know which would be the best way to make the hair and the cheek: With the grassgen, with the hairgen if I ever find it, or as carefully textured solid objects?

The side view is awkward. Maybe it needs a few minor corrections.
Bad quality screen capture, windows paint is broken, sorry. ^^'
The ear is modeled after a real cat's ear photo. It may be too realistic for my model, but I'm not sure if that's the problem with it... It just seems out of place, somehow.

(http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/779/27064690.jpg)
(http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/4666/93167715.jpg)
(http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/2820/96547630.jpg)
(http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/4063/37481797.jpg)

I finally learned to draw sideviews of my characters, so the next one will have two reference images, and therefore be a lot easier.  ;D
Title: Re: [WIP] My furry comic character, Lila
Post by: 3Dgeek11 on December 14, 2010, 09:57:59 am
Wow, I was hoping you'd finish that head one day! It looks great, really. :)
Be sure to post more when ya got more. :)
Title: Re: [WIP] My furry comic character, Lila
Post by: Janro on December 14, 2010, 10:43:05 am
Yes once you have solidified the design of the profile of your character it will answer most of your ear problems. Good job so far.

I just have one question though. Why did you go for a human-like lips? Looks a bit off when compared with the nose and (potentially) ears. Then again that's just what I think. :D If that's the intention of the design well I guess I'll just wait till it is finished to understand the design-choice. ^^
Title: Re: [WIP] My furry comic character, Lila
Post by: Kain on December 14, 2010, 11:18:12 am
Quote
I just have one question though. Why did you go for a human-like lips? Looks a bit off when compared with the nose and (potentially) ears.
I made the lips human-like, because I want the character to be somewhat serious and maybe a bit sexy. A cat-like mouth would just make her more cartooney.

Also, thanks for existing. You can't imagine how much your avatar is helping me with the placement of the ears right now...  ;D

Also, I think maybe I will shrink the forehead a bit. I think I made it too big...
It's difficult to judge her appearance without the hair and the cheek, though...  ???
Title: Re: [WIP] My furry comic character, Lila
Post by: Janro on December 14, 2010, 03:33:15 pm
I'm glad my existence is appreciated somewhat. XD It was a bit of a challenge positioning those ears just right even with drawn reference already at hand. I think I kind of nailed it at least for my character. Used the same formula for another character too. If you want to see the side of the model in my avatar I'd e glad to share it. I don't think I have it in my thread.

I agree the forehead juts out too much, even for a person. that's the beauty of 3D modelling, you can tweak it as many times as need be. :D And yes It is tough to judge appearance without the hair and cheek. I'm toying around with alpha maps to create cheek fur for one of my characters. Something you might want to try to tinker with after you're done modelling the base.
Title: Re: [WIP] My furry comic character, Lila
Post by: fromsoysauce on December 15, 2010, 01:39:35 am
I don't quite find your logic justifying.

I'd say that cat of Janro's is to an extent an ideal example of what you call a "furry" cat character.
What exactly ARE you going for?

Your model's odd selection of features makes it look real well... odd. You have the nose snouted out to justify why the mouth and jaw are way up front, even though the mouth and jaw appear quite human in comparison.

Furrys by default cannot be taken serious unless it is made into something where the facial characteristics appear extremely animal. Like done with some fighting game characters. I'll give it to ya strait pal, it looks way more cartoony as you have it now, then it would if you just gave her a legitimate cat shaped mouth/jaw structure.
Title: Re: [WIP] My furry comic character, Lila
Post by: Kain on December 15, 2010, 09:06:15 am
I actually want to be as loyal to the original sketch as possible, and in the sketch I tried to give her a human mouth from the beginning. There are many levels of furry-ness, and I'm going for 50% furry, 50% human. Now that you mention it, though, I could give the mouth more of a "w"-ish shape, at least. Oh well, it's not like I can't change it later if I don't like the result, anyway.  ;D  Also, I plan to give way more detail to the nose. The lack of hair and the blank expression don't help me judge the appearance, either. I think I'll just see how it turns out for now.  :-X  Thanks for the constructive criticism, though.

@Janro: It would help me a lot to see how you approached the subject, especially from the more difficult, at least for me, side view. So if you could post an image of the side of your character I would appreciate it.
Title: Re: [WIP] My furry comic character, Lila
Post by: fromsoysauce on December 15, 2010, 09:16:03 am
Are you referring to the furry-ness scale that you can find on google image search "furry"?
Title: Re: [WIP] My furry comic character, Lila
Post by: Kain on December 15, 2010, 09:49:02 am
Didn't know about it until now, but more or less that's kind of how I see it. Though, according to it, I go for about 40% furry. :D
Title: Re: [WIP] My furry comic character, Lila
Post by: Janro on December 15, 2010, 02:25:48 pm
Whatever the case. Just decide on what kind of a character you want to project then work with that image in mind. Be it cartoony or closer to the animal side. Because that's one decision that's quite vital when making this particular character in 3D. It will determine how exactly you should build the model.

Anyway attached is a side view screenshot.

To be honest I don't like the topology on this one. The ears are a bit too high and the part where the ear connects with the head curves too much. Also I wasted too many polygons at the back of the head.

The second image is a later model I made, original a jackal-esque character which I've semi converted to look like a cat for something I'm working on. I tried to fix it on that second model (More like adapt really) where I think it works better but nevertheless could use more work. Still trying to solve those five adjacent polygons to make it flow better. But that's how I went about it for now.  I already sketched out my reference blueprint for a more cat looking character which I hope will have more sound construction.

Hope it helps any.