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Artwork => Finished Works and Works in Progress => Topic started by: Arik_the_Red on December 01, 2014, 02:18:58 pm

Title: Crabby!
Post by: Arik_the_Red on December 01, 2014, 02:18:58 pm
Yes, I sat down and started making something... Been a long time....

Figure views so far, without and with bones visible...
Title: Re: Crabby!
Post by: Arik_the_Red on December 01, 2014, 07:12:56 pm
Yes, I know it's not kosher, but am posting again... Am updating the original images on the first post as I develop the crab. 

One thing I'm unsure about... is whether to create the various main body parts (pincers, legs, eyestalks, etc) as separate figures.  So, at this point am just assembling the whole crab in one figure.
Title: Re: Crabby!
Post by: johnar on December 01, 2014, 09:37:23 pm
Quote
(pincers, legs, eyestalks, etc) as separate figures.
I'm guessing you mean 'objects'
 One thing about attaching seperate parts to a 'characture figure' is that when they move they are liable to come 'apparently' detached from the rest of the figure. ie. An arm moves up, shows a split between arm and shoulder.
 Can possibly be hidden under shell? (but then there is a chance the arm could pass 'through' the shell when lifting).
 Personally, i'd continue as one object, but perhaps make a copy and 'detach faces' and keep all seperate objects for possible future use/experimentation.

 Cool Crabby. Looking forward to see him scuttling around the beach, forward and back from the waves, lol. (as they do. Funny things.) (http://s8.postimg.org/j64xwcx9d/Big_Grin_Gry.gif)

Title: Re: Crabby!
Post by: Arik_the_Red on December 01, 2014, 10:01:53 pm
Actually, no, I did mean as separaate figures... as in independently animated legs, pincers, etc. Thanks for the feedback, johnar, chewing on it.
Title: Re: Crabby!
Post by: johnar on December 01, 2014, 10:38:02 pm
 Ok. Cool, tho a little puzzled.
Quote
as in independently animated legs, pincers, etc.
  Is crabby going to lose some bits, that move on their own? lol.
 Truly tho, i'm trying to think of advantages/uses of creating a figure made of seperate figures. ?
 Skinning the 1 object allows independant movement of  pincers, legs, eyestalks etc.....
Title: Re: Crabby!
Post by: neirao on December 02, 2014, 11:33:51 am
nice! time ago i made one this for a animation!
Title: Re: Crabby!
Post by: Arik_the_Red on December 02, 2014, 05:12:19 pm
Thanks, neiro.. Did you ever show your crab here?  (errrrr... that does sound a bit weird, doesn't it...)

Here, I did a bit of rework ... going to try johnar's suggestion of skinning. I am a bit unsure about it.  I neglected to save the parts before subdividing them.  I don't know how well skinning works with subdvided parts...
Title: Re: Crabby!
Post by: johnar on December 02, 2014, 10:00:17 pm
Good one Arik_the_Red.
 
Quote
I neglected to save the parts before subdividing them.
If you subdivided by going 'build -> convert to subdivided' then all is fine. You can double click on 'object crabby' and change the 'Divisions - Working' from 'Working-2 and Final-3' to  'Working-0 and Final-1' . That'll 'un-subdivide' it. Then just select crabby and go Build -> convert to mesh. All good, its back to and unsubdivided mesh and you're good to go. (i would definately make a copy. Either save an8 as a different file, and/or, select crabby -> copy -> object -> new, and paste.

Quote
I don't know how well skinning works with subdvided parts...
It works really well. Personally, i would subdivide before skinning. (skin the subdivided crabby).

 In  figure mode. add crabby to bone above root bone.(please see  EDIT at bottom of post) If that bone is busy, already a leg bone or something, then select root bone and go 'build -insert bone' and add crabby to the new bone. (delete crabby object from figure, select new bone above root bone and go 'build -> add object' and choose crabby from list of objects. ((subdivided)).
 Move him around to match existing bones as best as possible.
 Now, with nothing selected, click the skinning button. With skinning button selected, click on the new bone. (or the bone that you added crabby to). In the options that pop up, select 'No.- Weights. Voala, crabby is all one colour. The whole crabby is attached/influenced, by that bone. The other bones will have a variety of different colors, as you will soon see. Change view to flat shaded or wire, so you can see the polys. Flat shaded is good to start.  The default weight brush can be a little large and weak for some figures. Go to 'build -> weight brush'and try strength 0.8 and Radius 12. Alrighty, good to go. Right click on a bone to select it, now with LMB, click and drag on some points surrounding that bone, you'll see the color change. (sometimes the bone color is same as original bone color, which can be tricky, but if so, try another bone and you'll quickly get the understanding of how it works. The 'paint' is actually only affecting the points. (or intersections of edges). Paint the area that you want that bone to influence, and then move on to the next bone)
 I gotta get going now Arik, and so ends part 1 of my little spiel about skinning. Will pop back later, and if you're finding any of this helpfull, i'll carry on with a list of tips and tricks etc.
 Cool. Gotta go 4 now.  Happy skinning . (http://s6.postimg.org/9pdpaahst/whtwink.gif)

EDIT I just had look at the pic you posted of the bones you have.  I would add crabby to the second bone above the root bone. When he's added, and b4 you skin, try arranging the bones a little more precisely in some areas. Ideally, the bones will be 'inside' the object. Bone sizes/diameters can be changed by double clicking on bone.  Default diameter is 1, often, for finer areas, 0.5 is a good diameter. The bones can be added/deleted and manipulated freely while crabby is attached to the 1 bone, before starting to skin. The perfect rig sits inside the body.

 These pics, not perfect, but shows how bones are inside fingers. If you can make bones 'inside' pincers, eyestalks etc, you'll get better results.
 Note. Sometimes when skinning a subdivided mesh, it will appear to go unsubdivided while youre skinning. Dont worry about that, its still subdivided.

(http://s28.postimg.org/dq1hsrvb1/painted.gif)

(http://s18.postimg.org/6x1eo1349/painted2.gif)
Title: Re: Crabby!
Post by: Arik_the_Red on December 03, 2014, 05:32:37 am
Heh, was already on it before catching your message, johnar... while you can't see the colors of the bone-weights, you can see how I set the bone angles, and had them defaulted to the pose shown for the figure.  I remade the legs, and still need to remake the pincer arms... decide just how I want to do the eyes and eyestalks... and then need some fine-tuning of the weight-painting for a bit better appearance of the bends at the various knee-joints.  A few problem areas that limit what I can do skinning, but after all, we're dealing with a basic program here.
Title: Re: Crabby!
Post by: johnar on December 03, 2014, 06:38:15 am
(http://s6.postimg.org/zd57j8ja5/gryrolleyes.gif)
 lol. Sorry Arik, i sorta knew you were already on to it,  your message caught me in an over helpfull go-fast mode, and once i got started i just had to 'carry on'. lol.
Crabbys' Lookn good. I've got a couple of animating tips. Blah blah blah blah blah........... (http://s8.postimg.org/j64xwcx9d/Big_Grin_Gry.gif)
Title: Re: Crabby!
Post by: kreator on December 03, 2014, 07:44:05 am

Remember this.....

Title: Re: Crabby!
Post by: neirao on December 03, 2014, 11:45:29 am
Did you ever show your crab here?  (errrrr... that does sound a bit weird, doesn't it...)

im made for a animation in Brazil, time ago, i dont show here.
Title: Re: Crabby!
Post by: Arik_the_Red on December 03, 2014, 02:24:46 pm
kreator:  Of course I remember that! "Strange Worlds" contest for Anim8or.com and our original AnimAnon forum... and one of the more involved anim8or compilations ever shown to display just what all anim8or can do! Still great stuff after all this time!

johnar:  Your comments, suggestions and help are always welcome.  Many benefit from your advice here, regardless of whether I've pigheadedly gone forward on my own or not ;-)   

I was just thinking, my oldest granddaughter is 8, and has loved making things in Minecraft for over a year now... Perhaps she is ready for anim8or, now that she has a pretty good reading comprehension!
Title: Re: Crabby!
Post by: Arik_the_Red on December 04, 2014, 02:22:34 am
Minor adjustments to bone weighting, replaced pincer arms...
Title: Re: Crabby!
Post by: Arik_the_Red on December 04, 2014, 02:21:24 pm
Alright, so... Crabby as you see above has his legs set with all the angles... and each is at "Default" setting.  When viewed in "Object" mode his legs are spread straight out, and in "Figure" mode his bones all line up similarly, except that the "Default" angles give them the pose of the legs being bent.

Now though, I put Crabby into "Sequence" and his "Default" is gone, legs are splayed straight out again.  Is that supposed to happen? The whole reason I set the "Default" was so his legs would be in a crab-stand position, not to still be spread-eagled.  It's been so long I forget...
Title: Re: Crabby!
Post by: johnar on December 04, 2014, 09:10:02 pm
 In figure mode, you cant change the shape of the object.
 If his legs are modelled flat, they'll stay flat until you move the bones in sequence or scene mode.
  Set a nice default stance/pose in sequence mode, and set the sequence to 2 frames long. (setting a sequence to 1 frame used to cause some problems, not sure if it still does, i always use 2 frames, with necessary bones keyed in frame one.)(make sure green key on when moving bones)
 Name sequence something like 'crabby stand', or 'crabby default' and just add it to crabby when you get to scene mode.
 Sequences can be used as 'poses'.. rather than a moving sequence. Really handy. Export sequence to a folder like 'crabbySEQ', ready to use any time in the future.
Title: Re: Crabby!
Post by: Arik_the_Red on December 04, 2014, 09:41:39 pm
What is the purpose of the "Default" angle then, in "Figure" mode? Is it something that never got developed?
Title: Re: Crabby!
Post by: johnar on December 04, 2014, 09:57:18 pm
Quote
What is the purpose of the "Default" angle then, in "Figure" mode?

 The bones in figure mode need to be rotated etc differently to fit  each model. So all/most figures bones are set differently re the model. So.. when the bones are set for that model, then they are at 'default' to suit/fit that model.
 (hope that makes sense)
Title: Re: Crabby!
Post by: Arik_the_Red on December 04, 2014, 10:10:22 pm
Nope, doesn't make sense to have a "Default" setting for the angles range, if it has no function except to look nice in figure mode...


Title: Re: Crabby!
Post by: Raxx on December 04, 2014, 10:26:18 pm
I think the default setting doesn't do anything. Nice crab btw ;)
Title: Re: Crabby!
Post by: Steve on December 04, 2014, 11:02:36 pm
#098-050 - Default Joint Angles Non-Functional

I'll definitely fix this.

Don't know why it hasn't been reported before because it looks like it's been that way for a long time (forever?)! I originally added the defaults for IK (don't ask!) which doesn't work very well without a rest point.
Title: Re: Crabby!
Post by: johnar on December 04, 2014, 11:16:12 pm
.

. Have just discovered something interesting.
 Changing default value in figure mode seems to make no difference, but if you change the default value in Sequence mode, then the change is made in figure mode.
 This makes me think, i may have a clue at an answer.
 You can set the default pose in figure mode, by changing the default values in sequence mode. .
 Will need to experiment with this........
...

 Ok...Just saw your post Steve. Cool.
 I've never taken any notice of the default values.
 I do remember tho, that objects have never been pose-able in figure mode. Just figured thats how it was meant to be. (http://s6.postimg.org/zd57j8ja5/gryrolleyes.gif)
 
Title: Re: Crabby!
Post by: Arik_the_Red on December 05, 2014, 12:32:21 am
johnar:  Will give that a go and see what comes of it.

Steve:  I was thinking about this, and I dredged my brain a bit and do recall first noticing the "bug" during the period of time when you were gone.  I just never messed with it again. Now I'm at it after about 2 years of being inactive, and came on it again.

Thanks for being back with us and working on your baby.  It's been great having Raxx and others dedicated through the times.  Speaking of which, does anyone know what became of floyd86?
Title: Re: Crabby!
Post by: CrashDrive on December 05, 2014, 06:41:42 am
Great job on the crab! Really nice.
Title: Re: Crabby!
Post by: Arik_the_Red on December 05, 2014, 01:47:14 pm
thanks, Crashdrive...

PROJECT GOES ON HOLD!  Sorry folks, but I've been doing this work with a laptop, and I had forgotten that anim8or required a 3 button mouse to move things in certain angles.  I don't have a spare mouse for this laptop, and so am having to put this thing on the backburner...
Title: Re: Crabby!
Post by: ENSONIQ5 on December 06, 2014, 03:11:05 am
Great to see some 3D magic from the mind of Arik again, it has been missed!  Re the third mouse button thing, most mice & laptops provide 3rd button functionality another way if no 3rd button is actually present, such as clicking both left and right buttons together or Alt+right click, or something like that.  Is that not a possibility?
Title: Re: Crabby!
Post by: cooldude234 on December 09, 2014, 06:20:37 am
I LOVE IT! But I wouldn't hug it anytime soon :P