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Artwork => Finished Works and Works in Progress => Topic started by: cumesoftware on May 29, 2008, 07:27:26 pm

Title: Doorless lift WIP
Post by: cumesoftware on May 29, 2008, 07:27:26 pm
This project is what you can call a "doorless" lift (or elevator). It is one of the models that were built in Europe in the 70's and 80's. It is still at is very beginning, This is perhaps the most ambitious project I've made. The final animation will have first person views, views from the shaft and views from the machine room.

The motor sound I'm using is awesome. It fits perfectly for a small lift. You can hear the original recording by pempi at:
http://freesound.iua.upf.edu/samplesViewSingle.php?id=33873. I've cleaned the audio and prolonged the landing to 3 seconds.

Anyway, here are some pics of the door:
(http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/8011/dlessliftwip1ah4.th.png) (http://img412.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dlessliftwip1ah4.png)
(http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/8974/dlessliftwip2zb3.th.png) (http://img412.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dlessliftwip2zb3.png)

Next thing will be the door frame. Of course I've to make the cars, the whole shaft, the lobbies at each floor and the machine room. Of course there is rigging, and then, texturing. The most complicated thing to do will be the traction cables, that have to deform around the drive pulley.
Title: Re: Dorless lift WIP
Post by: lynn22 on May 29, 2008, 09:38:54 pm
Oh yes, .... I remember it well.

Sure looks like the real thing, nice start.
Title: Re: Doorless lift WIP
Post by: cumesoftware on May 29, 2008, 10:19:35 pm
Are you from anywhere in Europe?

It seems that these elevators don't exist in the US. That's why Americans are overwhelmed by the lack of safety on these elevators.

I like this kind of elevators in particular, since they are decorative from outside, that is, the door doesn't look like a set of planks.
Title: Re: Doorless lift WIP
Post by: thecolclough on May 29, 2008, 11:27:13 pm
... This is perhaps the most ambitious project I've made. ...

even more ambitious than the dining room scene?!!  wow :o  you really are a one for big projects, aren't you?

- colclough
Title: Re: Doorless lift WIP
Post by: lynn22 on May 30, 2008, 09:30:39 am
Are you from anywhere in Europe?

It seems that these elevators don't exist in the US. That's why Americans are overwhelmed by the lack of safety on these elevators.
I used to live in Belgium, now I live in Scotland.
As for safety, I rode these elevators many times and I'm still around   ;D
Title: Re: Doorless lift WIP
Post by: cumesoftware on May 30, 2008, 01:35:24 pm
Are you from anywhere in Europe?

It seems that these elevators don't exist in the US. That's why Americans are overwhelmed by the lack of safety on these elevators.
I used to live in Belgium, now I live in Scotland.
As for safety, I rode these elevators many times and I'm still around   ;D
Me too. What irritates me off is that some YouTube users ride those elevators, for example, in countries Angola or Egypt, and then think that they are typical "third world" elevators. Some of them are quite classy.

I even committed the stupidity of riding one with my back against the doors/walls, while going up. I was wearing a nylon jacket, and the walls/doors are intentionally smooth, no I didn't got to injure myself.

Of course most of them are being replaced to meet the modern safety regulations. And for those that think that they are too dangerous, it is because they never saw a paternoster (I never had a ride on one of those, and I would like too).
Title: Re: Doorless lift WIP
Post by: cumesoftware on May 30, 2008, 03:31:37 pm
I've made all doors required. Still to do are the door frames. Here are more pics:
(http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/3411/dlessliftwip3wm8.th.png) (http://img100.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dlessliftwip3wm8.png)
(http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/7965/dlessliftwip4jp5.th.png) (http://img100.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dlessliftwip4jp5.png)

The large door that you see at the left is for the goods lift. There will be a stair around the shaft of the passenger lifts (these elevators will share the same shaft, and that's what you will see). Of course this is not the final disposition, but it is pretty much close.
Title: Re: Doorless lift WIP
Post by: cumesoftware on May 31, 2008, 02:46:03 pm
Well. I'm starting to have my reservations about this project. Yesterday, I've made an experiment by making a sketch of a shaft. However, it seems that the lights outside the shaft were not behaving as I predicted. The light just gone through the ceilings, lighting the  the ceilings above.

Attached is the mess I've done. Of course the doors won't be stacked as a single object. This is just trial and error (being the error quite evident. I've tried several configurations with the lights, without results).

My guess is that the ceilings have to cause 100% dark shadows, but unfortunately that is a light property. I mean, the shadows cannot be 100% black, because there is always the reflected light, but the ceilings must cause total occlusion. The only way to minimize the blackness of the shadows case I choose the shadows to be 100% dark is to use more than one light per floor (which I was going to use, anyway). Is there any other solution?

Also, I had to change the lights from volume to ray trace, or the rendering would appear to be scratched. Anyone noticed this problem with volume lights before?
Title: Re: Doorless lift WIP
Post by: Mactetra on May 31, 2008, 03:08:20 pm
I've had the same problem. the render looked really weird. what i had to do was to delete the light and add a new one :S

the doors look a lot alike. I would have made like a crack or somthing in the glass of one of the windows.  That would have looked cool
Title: Re: Doorless lift WIP
Post by: cumesoftware on May 31, 2008, 03:22:31 pm
Well. I fixed part of the lighting problem. However, it seems that the lights on the above floors illuminate the scene below. This wasn't noticed before. I really tried deleting and adding the lights again, but the problem persists. Of course the lights now only illuminate the floors below, and not the ones above as well, as before.

Is there any tutorial about lighting? I' guess that I'm making a step bigger than my legs.
Title: Re: Doorless lift WIP
Post by: thecolclough on May 31, 2008, 06:03:43 pm
... or the rendering would appear to be scratched. Anyone noticed this problem with volume lights before?

i used to have that a few years ago, but i've given up on using shadows altogether, as i tend to do video, and the render times were just suicidal...  :P

- colclough
Title: Re: Doorless lift WIP
Post by: ENSONIQ5 on June 01, 2008, 01:19:03 am
Volume shadows have never worked properly, something Steve is aware of.  Fixing them has been kinda low priority because ray traced shadows work fine and produce a much more realistic effect.  Like colclough, I tend to avoid using shadows at all, if I can, due to the long render times.  The only times you really have to use shadows is in strong, single light scenarios, basically outside on a sunny day or space scenes, etc.  That is for animations of course.  For single model renders shadows, especially soft shadows, can make all the difference.
Title: Re: Doorless lift WIP
Post by: Tanzim on June 01, 2008, 08:05:50 am
Quote
However, it seems that the lights on the above floors illuminate the scene below.
I think that only happens if your floors are 'infinitely thin' (single yellow/blue face) instead of being a 'cube' (yellow/blue-blue/yellow)
Title: Re: Doorless lift WIP
Post by: cumesoftware on June 01, 2008, 01:19:57 pm
Well, I decided to suppress the freight elevator. It wouldn't make muck sense to have one in an apartment building.

Volume shadows have never worked properly, something Steve is aware of.  Fixing them has been kinda low priority because ray traced shadows work fine and produce a much more realistic effect.  Like colclough, I tend to avoid using shadows at all, if I can, due to the long render times.  The only times you really have to use shadows is in strong, single light scenarios, basically outside on a sunny day or space scenes, etc.  That is for animations of course.  For single model renders shadows, especially soft shadows, can make all the difference.
So, in interior scenes, you do not use shadows? Well, that raises a problem: How do you prevent lights from illuminating the other floors?

Quote
However, it seems that the lights on the above floors illuminate the scene below.
I think that only happens if your floors are 'infinitely thin' (single yellow/blue face) instead of being a 'cube' (yellow/blue-blue/yellow)
No, the floors are perfect cubes with 10 units of thickness. I can't find any reason.
Title: Re: Doorless lift WIP
Post by: spicy on June 01, 2008, 02:32:18 pm
I love the lift! It looks so...so real! Not sure about the lighting but the lift is fantastic
Title: Re: Doorless lift WIP
Post by: ENSONIQ5 on June 01, 2008, 03:05:38 pm
Hmm, I see what you mean.  It's not really shadows you are chasing, its occlusion.  If the elements are all set to cast and receive shadows, and the light is set to cast 100% shadows, the light should not pass through the floors, at least with the Scanline renderer (not sure about ART, it has a few niggles).  Make sure the object normals are correctly set as well, that might cause problems if they are reversed.

You will have to set the shadows to 100% for full occlusion.  You can adjust the "blackness" of shadows by adjusting the Ambient setting of the material used to texture the ceilings, and any other material for that matter.  If it is set to a value of 0.30, that should be the same as a 70% shadow falling on material with an ambient setting of 0.0 (I think).

The only other thing I can suggest is to limit the range if the lights themselves, so they only reach the areas they are supposed to illuminate.  A bit of experimentation might yield results.
Title: Re: Doorless lift WIP
Post by: cumesoftware on June 02, 2008, 02:03:38 am
I've tried the 100% shadows, but it only partially solves the problem. I will try adjusting the ambient setting. It seems that the material is picking some reflected light from above. The normals are no problem, since I'm using cubes for the floors (for now).
Title: Re: Doorless lift WIP
Post by: cumesoftware on June 04, 2008, 02:24:16 pm
Ok. I hadn't much time lately, but I managed to make the guide rails (according to the T75 guide rail dimensions for use in that particular lift). I've been a bit crazy for details lately. It is because I'm afraid that some YouTube users (that might be experts on lifts) to point structural errors.

Anyway, as Mactetra suggested, I've added a broken glass (this one is for this particular door). I will add another on another door and a defect here and there. However, I don't wan't to add to much damage or wear, just wear from the normal use. I'm planning to add textures to the doors (some scratches) but I'm not an expert on texturing.

Well, here are the pics of the latest developments:
(http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/1069/dlessliftwip5sr3.th.png) (http://img138.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dlessliftwip5sr3.png)
(http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/9673/dlessliftwip6gz4.th.png) (http://img138.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dlessliftwip6gz4.png)
(http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/1084/dlessliftwip7wb3.th.png) (http://img138.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dlessliftwip7wb3.png)