Take your time with the Box modelling. The vertera have not been give "a fair shake" yet. I know you can add some lateral detail ... not just that spike from behind. You gotta have a real ref ... just like you did with the skull.

See how the lateral detail on the vertebra is every bit as important as the posterior detail.

I had some time to work on the face. I tried to get good topology around the eyes. I think I got pretty close, but still a lot of tweaks needed.

Here are a few views.

http://www.cslab.uky.edu/~lteri2/DoctorStopMo/SkeletonWire2.bmp

So how the heck do you add details using mainly extruding tools? I've come very, very close to just breaking down and saying, "That's it! I'm going to add points here to get me the shape I want!"

Armenian, great job on the face - a real credit to point modeling . Looks very Grecian or like one of those Romanesque statues. This one's a keeper, for sure. Yeah, this is my first time box modeling. Or actually, I made a super-low poly model partially by box modeling one time, but this is definitely my first high poly model made by box modeling tecnhiques.

And I do mean high poly - there are 24 vertebrae; the old vertebra had only 84 faces, which still would have translated to 2016 faces for the entire spinal column. The newer vertebra that I am working on right now has significantly more polygons. Computer, here comes the punishment... .

Extrude (and Extrude Connected, as well as their Intrude corrolaries)
Scale Faces
Inset Faces
Bridge
Connect Edges
Knife

to remove them you could select cullumn or row edges in between them and use connect edges to get rid of the triangals

I model with "n-gons", indeed...

is when all is finely shaped, and if it's for realtime games, and time to hard optimize, when I convert to triangles...if for hi res, I never do it...

in Anim8or, I think you just should mix techniques, like seems Bob_it does...

you NEED to cut,(and still is box modelling...heck, what i said...use the tools in each package as is more sensible, not just box modelling or point modelling..) to add detail and refinement. Don't be too rigid. Is the result what counts.

I have sometimes mixed patches, box, blobs, spline for a same model...

I keep prefering box, but that can be me, and with the package I use.

I know in my head what the vertebrae is supposed to look like. I just can't box model it. I know I could point model it, but that is not the point of the exercise. So, box modelers: how do I do it?

As I said, it's a very complex object, and very hard to model. I drew in the edge loops with the add points tool to show you what the major shapes are (still hard to see), but I just don't see how I can box model it.

step 6 is "bump" tool in one single comand. Inset is like in wings.

looks like he explanied very well, though to achieve the complex xhape posted by mark (first, you need more angles and shots) you have to do more stuff, more operations.

I...well, can only explain as how I'd do in Wings or Metasequoia.

2 ways. Both may include the putting ref images in image planes. But can do just looking at the photo, in a inrfan view window, adjusting wing3d window to tile.

a) Surely -yep this can seem a bit point modelling, but always said I do so for inorganic models- I'd load a front/side/top template...if I am to do it very exactly, I make it so all matches well.

So , I freeze my 3 image planes in wings. I put and scale to fit the general proportion of a box to the drawing. I select for example a vertical edge of the box in the front face and another in back face. And hit l (edge loop selected) or just select back and front faces and hit l.

I hit a number to cut it in all those new segments. Maybe I'll repeat to get more.

Now I hit X or shift X to work in frontal view only, ortographic mode. that's best way in wings to model over a ref.

I don't touch the middle button to rotate world then. this is quick. Only basic shaping it in contour. Is like u do, but more like deforminga closed shape. quad select and hit b(well, my key for free move) to some rough shape.

I do the same in left view. anothe rrough adjust in top. Now I have it so that should be fit in general ref. Of course, non detailed contour. Just rough low cage.

Then It'd come the real solid modelling (I like this term better, invented now...) insetting, bridging(bolean join), scaling, rotating with pivot selection, moving normal, scaling with a choosen edge as direction axe...intruding, etc. The shape is complex. And I never follow an order, sorry.

But somehow I'd be protecting the general external contour.Indeed, I could have just started from an spher or cube, with not the segementing the quad loops. Just refinining and refining. It's quick.

b) Again, with refs, or with an irfanview tiny window near, better several for seveal angles.
Then, as it is a tube like shape, as with any pipe, I could model it extruding normal, extruding free(specially good. it lets u extrude as u rotate world with middle mouse, and allways does stuff in the screen plain. Matches terracota and clay traditional modelling.Also happens so with rotate, move, scale..), lifting (good for "ellbows"), scalling, ring selecting and hitting connect edges, or just hitting "3" for example, and hitting connect then so I get 3 new loops...which I now can select one edge of em, hit l, scale uniform that loop, and so go making the tubular shape. But is extrude free, rotate and lift, pluse vector operations(operation that lets you choose a pivot and an axe as direction, from vertex, edge or face...or average of several of them) what really lets you go doing that so twisted pipe.

I made pipes, tubes, and othe rindustrial stuff with it...for games, so no needed to make a lot of precission. Could have done if not the need of banging several models and uvmapping in every mourning...

That's usually why I don't post tuts(besides I am not an ordered person and model a bit...erratically) as I use other tool, and if u see my desordered way of modelling , even a bit strange, I don't think you could call it box modelling.

quote:

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Pretty please?

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Pretty sorry...

well...That'd mean learning modelling in Anim8or+doing the tut...

I use only bits of time in what is not certain pair of projects, one hi res 3d, another 2d old school...

Besides, I am not sure it'd really benefit you.

Also, BOB_iT already does model surely best way can be done in Anim8or. I see he is way clever on how he adapted to the tool, which is what really matters. He has lots of tuts and posts made...

I don't know really anim8or modelling tools (besides I keep like stopped when I can't rotate world with a button mouse, and having to go constantly to tool bar for every action...I am not saying that this is bad. It just don't suit me at all, I'll probably use a lot Anim8or's animation once vertex weights, IK and joint pinning come to life. I already got more or less the grips of AOI and Blender. I'd love when Anim8or has these animation features too.)

But anyway, seeing shots from vbsmiles, and some of the times I have played a bit with Anim8or's modelling, you could (see I am mixing methods, I am not so obsesed with "box modelling" term ) draw with points a blueprimt of a section/cut of the bone , a cut of the bone in its section. So u make a profile to extrude.

Indeed, best would be to do a loft along an spline(with the weird curve path that bone has) with that section. If Anim8or does support it. (and then cut, refine, etc)

If not, you can go extruding (box modelling) the section, in a front view to match the drawing reference, and when you need a turn, if no extrude free available, could extrude a tiny distance, rotate (paralel to screen, I think it's done in Anim8or with RMB mouse button) that new section, so you orientate it to make the turn. If turn is in two ways, you still need to rotate world and look maybe at the side image ref, in the box, or image planes you setup (really important they match, use horizontal lines and worry about being images and planes of same size.)

then exturde section again, dragging till you get next turn, and repeat th eopeation.

This way u build basic twisted so weirdly bone thing (must say an skeleton is one of the hardest models, even more if you are learning new techniques) and then , just is refining.

refining in animator...must be not hard (I emphasize: Anim8or have it all for model, it's just a personal matter if it suits you) as you have knife (rotate world so to be able to cut onlt the edges u want) so to make new points, I suppose u have conect vertex to make the new edges, inset for the new born face, to extrude the interior face that made the inset. That way you make a small bump..

The modifiers will help you bend, twist, etc. But you could even do it all with extrude&rotate, and the cut/inset/extrude, if I thought it well.

Of course...final shape, in all its accuracy gotta come with the move vertex tool(if u want really accuracy, then moving those with ortographic front view with the image plane drawing, modelling over its traces.Moving vertices to match the drawing), and surely more cutting. I cut in Wings selecting the edge and hitiing a number, so i got those vertices. Evem with an opld version plugin, I can "draw loop" , that is, draw the loop directly over the built mesh, to refine in a very fast way.I really hope tha plugin gets back to life.

Take in consideration I am speaking without knowing Anim8or's modelling, and only with the tools I pushed to see what they did and how when the several times I tested it.

Imho, you gotta ask Bob_It , he has total knowledge of the new aproach to modelling you wanna make in Anim8or.

Here is the concept. (I am not very good with sketching so excuse the poor concept)

The primitive I started with was a simple box. I added segments to the box and shaped it to match the concept from side view. I made a few adjustments such as narrowing the nose polies a bit and shaping the face from front view. This is what I was left with.

As you can see, it's a very rough design of the face. The volume is there, but the details are missing. There are rough indications of mouth ring loops, and the loops around the eyes, but the rest is not there.

As with point modeling, the first area I put detail into is the mouth. This was a bit hard, since I had to use the knife tool many times to adjust the loops in a nice way.
I also started adding the loops that go from the nose and on/under the chin.

This was my progress after that.

At this point I had the mouth the way I wanted it to, but the rest was still very rough. The next area I focused on was the nose. The volume was already there, so all I had left was refinements. I had to adjust some edge loops, and do some knifing to fix the topology more or less.
I was surprised to find out that the nose took much less effort than with point modeling. Anyway, after the nose, I did some more refining at other areas and this is what I was left with.

The nose was now pretty good so I went on with fixing some of the cheek loops. I fixed some things, but most of the work involved getting the topology at and above the nose.
It wasn't very hard, but because of the original grid-like structure of the mesh, the loops didn't like to be fixed well.
If you look at the last wire, you can see that some of the loops that are already refined need some more tweaking, but I don't think it will be much of a problem, just some knifing.

Here is the result.

Here are a few renders. It's not finished, but it's going pretty fast.

I'll come back with more updates on the steps (high level coverage). I'll probably also start a new thread in the WIP forum for this.

Conclusion:

Anim8or is very capable of box modeling, but I don't think it would be very efficient to be just boxing. I am starting to get a feeling that a mix of box and point modeling will make modeling with anim8or very fast and efficient.

When modeling this head I kept strictly to Boxing without any use of the add point tool, but there were a lot of times when some point modeling would have made things much faster.

Suggested workflow: Make the general shape and add whatever detail possible without running into problems. Should a problem arise, or if the modeler feels that some point modeling will help making the process faster (refers to topology refining, and more specific details), he/she should switch to point modeling.

Also, if anim8or gets a virtual mirror, box modeling will be a lot faster.

Real time symmetry between halves of an object (though most box modeling tools are symmetrical in Anim8or, all are not)

Point Beveling

Move Faces

You can model with whatever. Is the concept. Is more a matter of how quickly.

Anim8or does it all since modelling to rendering and bone animation...Wings only does modeling. Ultimate unwrap just uv maps. has a lot of other functions, but not a full blown up keyframer and weighting tools, renderer, etc...

And there's quite fewer free softwares that focus in animation.

And don't be so impressed by Mirai video captures if thats what you saw. besides when seen at fast motion, impress more than they should, I think you are a very good modeller.

Is just another way of doing things. Quite quick, and that's what impress.

If it serves as a clue, when I saw those I thought I'd never model so, and wished to stop modelling. but I did continue, and you end up learning same techniques. Not that one reaches to be one of those gods, but quite more capable than what you think initially.

but here is an interesting video of a lightwave boxmodeling session using only Spin quads, extrude and move point / polygons most of which anim8or is capable of doing. TimeLapsed.

Hey DSM, I think you are giving up too fast. For your second box modeled thing it's really good.

The only thing confusing about box modeling is where to start. It's hard to get started, but when you do it just goes on and on. Just treat the points you have as splines and ignore the others. Position them and the move on to the other points.

I know it sounds the same as plain point modeling, but it's much faster. BTW, I think you have falsly gained the impression that box modeling is extruion, face scale, face move, rotate and such.

If Steve reads this, here's an idea for a new selection type; I call it Ladder Select:

it only selects between quads

But for the (secret, is an animation with a guy(another game artist) worked with me at a company, I'll ask if I can show(he surely will say "NO!")..Or not, it would not be anim8or related) creature I am modelling now, hi res, I am using a damn good tool for modelling. Is a version of wings that allowed Drawloop plugin. It's fantastic. You draw the loop over the mesh. Anyway, I dream of a draw polygon tool over the mesh like the one in Maya 5, no restrictions, you freely draw the stuff over it. woah,can be there a better method...Later extrude, bevel, inset or bump those new shapes in surface. Indeed, that's 80% of my modelling way, drawing a shape over the already detailed mesh, and go bumping it.(I have the 2 versions of wings installed, this and the newer, latest.) I suppose Lightwave has many methods like this I mention now.

"..falsly gained the impression that box modeling is extruion, face scale, face move, rotate and such."

I agree here with The Armenian.It is much more.

And agree with dsm in that the tool -whatever- must be used till the last of its advantages, they're there for something . Use all what it can give you, the result is not box modelling or point modelling, but the cleverest way to model with that software...and surely you'll get it.

Sculptor or drawing person aproach.

Yep, the draw over -but imho, in a more freeway than it is in Clacos Wings DrawLoop plugin- the mesh, totally rocks. Specially for hi res modelling.

there's a plugin for Max,but old version of Max I think..and is not as advanced as that tool in Maya (I have never seen it. Just a user described it to me)

1) You can always work outwards from the detailed area.

2) You can always GRAFT together two separately made objects and do a little re-engineering to make them blend like smooth silk (Use magnets or whatever).

Naturally these are skills that come with a lot of practice.

3) You can use virtual mirror so you only need to do 1/2 the work and so it's easier to work inside the mouth if you cut the body in 1/2.

Connect Edges (lets you add edge loops easily between existing edge loops)

Knife (not as good as a freeform tool would be, but it lets you get into certain areas while leaving other parts alone; easy to get carried away with n-gons, though)

Subdivide faces (best way to add faces into an existing region; sharp change in polygon edge number occurs, though, so faces subdivided might not blend well with faces not subdivided)

I have only been box-modeling and using wings for about 2 or maybe three months. Sorry to post other software creations in here. I just think it is more about the method and not the software.

This is my current project.

I am going to check out anim8tor though..looks kickin...just wanted to say that adding detail is REALLY easy. like everything, its just practice practice practice.

Take care all.

Why not just loop-cut half the model, work on 1/2 for 15 minutes and then mirror, look, and repeat ?

Just an idea.

Back even a year ago I know that some vector functions just didn't work right under the implementaion virtual mirror.

Shoot ... I used VIRTUAL virtual mirror under Nendo years before Wings3D even existed.

I keep my centerline happy and I get a performance boost by using the fastest VIRTUAL virtual mirror. 1/2 the polygons all the time.

Also, this is NOT instant messaging; it's very rare to get a reply in under 30 minutes at any forum.