General Category > Ongoing Anim8or Development
Big Changes to Point Edit Tools
Steve:
Raxx: You have lots of good ideas, as usual. Here's some preliminary thoughts/comments.
--- Quote ---Use thick lines just for highlighting and maybe selection.
--- End quote ---
I agree that this could be useful but it's more work that you might think. That's not to say I don't want to do it.
--- Quote ---Show entire point unclipped when selecting.
--- End quote ---
That was my intention - I'm still working on the best way to do it.
--- Quote ---Moving the mouse off the main window leaves a point/edge/face highlighted.
--- End quote ---
I'm aware of this but haven't yet found a good way to address it yet either.
--- Quote --- behavior of the right- and middle- mouse buttons
--- End quote ---
I'm still working on how these should behave. There are a lot of options. You can't distinguish between a click and a drag until the user either moves the mouse or releases the button. The way that I would do this is:
1) On Mouse Down: Do nothing. The current P/E/F if there is one should already be highlighted.
2A) On Mouse Move: Remove the highlighting. If the highlighted P/E/F is unselected, deselect the rest of the object and select just that part. The continue begin editing the mesh. What happens if you click in empty space? Deselect everything? Or edit using the existing selection(s)?
2B) On Mouse Up: If the mouse hasn't moved, Clear-and-Select, Deselect-One or Add-Select, depending on the button.
Currently on 1) I remove the highlighting and effect the selection.
--- Quote ---highlight color
--- End quote ---
Yes, As I stated in the top of this topic the overall colors are as yet decided. Your example looks really good but it shows a monochrome mesh which isn't the norm. (On a related note: One idea I have is for a setting that shows everything as a light gray. Seems that this would be useful for modeling because the shape is a bit more obvious.)
Raxx:
--- Quote ---
--- Quote ---Use thick lines just for highlighting and maybe selection.
--- End quote ---
I agree that this could be useful but it's more work that you might think. That's not to say I don't want to do it.
--- End quote ---
I know it's more work, but I think it's worth it! So I'll wait and hope ;)
--- Quote ---
--- Quote --- behavior of the right- and middle- mouse buttons
--- End quote ---
I'm still working on how these should behave. There are a lot of options. You can't distinguish between a click and a drag until the user either moves the mouse or releases the button. The way that I would do this is:
1) On Mouse Down: Do nothing. The current P/E/F if there is one should already be highlighted.
2A) On Mouse Move: Remove the highlighting. If the highlighted P/E/F is unselected, deselect the rest of the object and select just that part. The continue begin editing the mesh. What happens if you click in empty space? Deselect everything? Or edit using the existing selection(s)?
2B) On Mouse Up: If the mouse hasn't moved, Clear-and-Select, Deselect-One or Add-Select, depending on the button.
Currently on 1) I remove the highlighting and effect the selection.
--- End quote ---
Yes, that's my thinking as well :) If you click (or click and drag) in empty space, it should deselect and do nothing.
--- Quote ---
--- Quote ---highlight color
--- End quote ---
Yes, As I stated in the top of this topic the overall colors are as yet decided. Your example looks really good but it shows a monochrome mesh which isn't the norm. (On a related note: One idea I have is for a setting that shows everything as a light gray. Seems that this would be useful for modeling because the shape is a bit more obvious.)
--- End quote ---
Personally, for 99.9% of the modeling I do, I use a gray material. The orange otherwise has as much chance of standing out as any other color (well, you know, unless you consider that bright green catches the eye most of any color, but bright orange is closer to it than red). It would indeed be awesome to have a modeling view option, that gives it a slightly darker gray than the default material (flat, no spec), and also does a "Headlight" effect, where the only light source is from the camera, thus illuminating the mesh no matter the viewing angle. This is my favorite in other modeling programs, and an extremely helpful aid to modeling.
MvGulik:
I personally kinda question the general wisdom of those "deselect all on empty space click" points of view.
Deselection a (small or potential big) active selection by accident is not something that you would like to happen to easily. Clicking in empty space with the mouse, while editing a selection with the mouse, seems a not to uncommon possible mishap.
(Deselecting all with SPACE, and only with SPACE. Has a lot less change of being used accidentally.)
Also, To me, using different mouse buttons for different selection actions seem a bit of a wast of mouse button use. When using the selection status of the clicked item to add or remove is to or from the current section ... would only require one mouse button, leaving the others mouse buttons for potential other functions. (+having a strong memorable difference between the usage of the different mouse buttons seems to me a good thing to.)
Just my 2 cent thoughts on this.
Trevor:
I think I am in agreement with most of the suggestions.
"1) On Mouse Down: Do nothing. The current P/E/F if there is one should already be highlighted.
2A) On Mouse Move: Remove the highlighting. If the highlighted P/E/F is unselected, deselect the rest of the object and select just that part. The continue begin editing the mesh. What happens if you click in empty space? Deselect everything? Or edit using the existing selection(s)?
2B) On Mouse Up: If the mouse hasn't moved, Clear-and-Select, Deselect-One or Add-Select, depending on the button."
I would also question the 2A in relation to current standard.
As it currently stands (unless something changed and I have yet to notice) I can select a P/E/F and then click anywhere else and drag and the selected P/E/F will move.
the rest 1, 2B I agree with, if click on a new P/E/F then others should be de-selected and new one selected (or added to if ctrl-click)
but 2A means that you would have to keep clicking the P/E/F ... actually scrub that.... I think Im ok with it, but I do in fact now have another problem caused by this.
(Unable to modify Selection of P/E/F's)
ok, So, lets say you have n P/E/F's selected and you want to move all of them.
Do you:
just click and drag
Ctrl-Click and drag?
I ask because it seems that to simply click and drag would un-select all other P/E/F's and only move the 1... this is bad.
"and also does a "Headlight" effect, where the only light source is from the camera, thus illuminating the mesh no matter the viewing angle. This is my favorite in other modeling programs, and an extremely helpful aid to modeling."
Can I ask if you mean flat shading?
Set Ambiant to 1.2 and diffuse to 0.001 and click the combine button (=). is this the same effect?
(this flat shading is how I model for GF since the GE engine does not do lighting)
(Also of note, the reason for 0.001 is so that it keeps the texture assigned, if set to 0, the texture is removed)
Trev
Raxx:
--- Quote from: MvGulik on November 30, 2014, 08:37:41 am ---I personally kinda question the general wisdom of those "deselect all on empty space click" points of view.
Deselection a (small or potential big) active selection by accident is not something that you would like to happen to easily. Clicking in empty space with the mouse, while editing a selection with the mouse, seems a not to uncommon possible mishap.
(Deselecting all with SPACE, and only with SPACE. Has a lot less change of being used accidentally.)
Also, To me, using different mouse buttons for different selection actions seem a bit of a wast of mouse button use. When using the selection status of the clicked item to add or remove is to or from the current section ... would only require one mouse button, leaving the others mouse buttons for potential other functions. (+having a strong memorable difference between the usage of the different mouse buttons seems to me a good thing to.)
Just my 2 cent thoughts on this.
--- End quote ---
Remember, this is for fast select ie tweaking. It's primarily for rapid movement of individual elements along the screen space. 99% of the time, you won't have an active selection to work with, nor would you build up a careful selection using the tool--that's for the normal selection tools in non-fast select mode. Clicking in an empty space to deselect while in tweak mode is both natural and helpful--I've experienced this myself in another modeling program (XSI Mod Tool) and use it quite often.
Traditionally, shift and ctrl are used for adding and removing from the selection. Myself, I've always liked Anim8or's three-button selection method and it's easy to remember which does what. A lot of times in other programs, I mix up what shift and control do--that's not the case with Anim8or because it's unique.
--- Quote from: Trevor on November 30, 2014, 09:44:53 am ---As it currently stands (unless something changed and I have yet to notice) I can select a P/E/F and then click anywhere else and drag and the selected P/E/F will move.
...
but 2A means that you would have to keep clicking the P/E/F[/s] ... actually scrub that.... I think Im ok with it, but I do in fact now have another problem caused by this.
(Unable to modify Selection of P/E/F's)
--- End quote ---
Hello Trevor, again I'll remind you that this is Fast Select we're talking about, as I mentioned to MvGulik. Fast Select is a tweaking tool, primarily something you use to rapidly move stuff around piece by piece in an intuitive manner. It's not a replacement to normal mode, which is used for more careful, precise editing. To be exact, Fast Select is a combination of the selection tools and whatever transformation tool it is--you single click to modify the selection if you really have to, you click drag to transform it. Not sure what build you're using, but if you're in Fast Select mode and have a selection, and left-click and drag in an empty space, it deselects everything (because it's using the mouse button select functionality). If you right-click and drag in an empty space, it drags the current selection. It's weird. Don't get me started on middle-clicking and dragging lol.
This is also why I want MMB to use the transform-along-normal functionality instead of the Ctrl button. This way the Ctrl modifier key can be used for painting the selection when clicking and dragging across whatever it is you want to paint a selection, and therefore be consistent with the original selection tools while mitigating a faster editing process.
--- Quote from: Trevor on November 30, 2014, 09:44:53 am ---ok, So, lets say you have n P/E/F's selected and you want to move all of them.
Do you:
just click and drag
Ctrl-Click and drag?
I ask because it seems that to simply click and drag would un-select all other P/E/F's and only move the 1... this is bad.
--- End quote ---
I think you misinterpreted the actions Steve suggested. In Fast-Select, click dragging on a selection moves all selected elements. Click-dragging off a selection doesn't move the selected elements, and newly selects and moves an element if it's on it, or otherwise deselects. So to answer your question, you click on the selection and drag.
--- Quote ---"and also does a "Headlight" effect, where the only light source is from the camera, thus illuminating the mesh no matter the viewing angle. This is my favorite in other modeling programs, and an extremely helpful aid to modeling."
Can I ask if you mean flat shading?
Set Ambiant to 1.2 and diffuse to 0.001 and click the combine button (=). is this the same effect?
(this flat shading is how I model for GF since the GE engine does not do lighting)
(Also of note, the reason for 0.001 is so that it keeps the texture assigned, if set to 0, the texture is removed)
Trev
--- End quote ---
Nope, not flat shading. Flat shading is a horrible aid for modeling, you can't see contours at all. Look at the video I made of Headlight view and a good shading for modeling, which allows you to edit at any angle without having to fight the lighting:
Not really the best video :P The light source seems to be an infinite one, rotated slightly down at an angle relative to the camera. It's hard to tell with the video, but if you rotated to, say, the underside of the squirrel's chin or inside the mouth, it'd be illuminated from that angle still.
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