Anim8or Community

General Category => Ongoing Anim8or Development => Topic started by: Steve on May 01, 2020, 05:20:49 pm

Title: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: Steve on May 01, 2020, 05:20:49 pm
Beginning with build 1380 (http://www.anim8or.com/download/preview/files/animcl1380.zip) Anim8or supports sound. Use the Build->AddSound... menu command to add sound .WAV sounds to the scene. The time track shows a visualization of the sound to help synchronize speech morphs and movement.

Note: While you may use .mp3 and .wav files, only .wav files show the sound wave visualization in the track window!

More to come: Tracks for dialog and sound description, character speech morph targets, and more!

I'm working on some examples to post, so stay tuned!

Note: I updated the above link to point to the latest version on May 6.
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: johnar on May 01, 2020, 07:11:38 pm
Nearly Speechless, but not for much longer! ! (https://i.postimg.cc/NFQscSY6/Winkwhite.gif)
 This is so unexpected, and such an awesome surprise. Can't wait to try it out.
 I new it was somewhere on your list, steve, but what a nicely kept secret.. (https://i.postimg.cc/QN9f3CVd/biggrinn-W.gif)
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: davdud101 on May 01, 2020, 07:33:31 pm
Steve!!! No lie - I'll admit I haven't used Anim8or for anything beyond CAD-type stuff for the past few years - but this might be the feature to encourage me to get back into animation! It's always been a bit on the tough side getting sound to sync up well (gets often to where you're rather syncing the sound TO the animation instead ;) )

Very cool!
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: captaindrewi on May 01, 2020, 08:18:27 pm
HA ha ha hahaha bleep bang whistle!boom!
Dived right in..half hour later re reads Steve's words about no .avi ouput yet
 ;)
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: johnar on May 01, 2020, 10:06:02 pm
Hi steve
 Have been playing with the add sound feature. Adding sound is working here, and can add one sound  after another with no problems. I understand that is a single sound track, so sounds can not be overlapped. But thats fine.
 I can add sound, and when i push play -awesome- the sound plays.
 Have found 2 problems.
 The sound file is showing above the timetrack, but is only showing a flat line, and not a representation of the sound. Could this be a soundcard/driver issue. I only have the built in microsoft High definition audio device. Haven't updated drivers, (not so easy here), so before updating drivers could there possibly be another reason why the .wav file is only showing as a flat line?

 The other problem i'm having is rendering the video with sound. Its only rendering 1 frame. Tried scanline, ART and opengl rendering. go to render 200 frames, uncompressed, and only 1 frame renders. Same with using video compression.

 Any ideas? what does your system use in regards to audio? might i need some updating or dedicated soundcard? Thanks. (https://i.postimg.cc/VstLb9dQ/Smilewhite.gif)


Quote
half hour later re reads Steve's words about no .avi ouput yet
oops...missed that...
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: FWL on May 02, 2020, 05:00:49 am
This is really cool, Steve! A super addition for character animation! Thanks a lot for the update!
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: Steve on May 02, 2020, 10:43:36 am
johnar: Are you using a .wav file or an .mp3 file? I have only been able to read the waveform for .avi files but not .mp3. I probably should have only allowed .wav for the time being, or at least add a warning dialog.

Oops! Looks like I broke rendering when there's a sound track. I'll fix that!!!
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: Steve on May 02, 2020, 02:02:54 pm
Build 1378+ (http://www.anim8or.com/download/preview/files/animcl1378+.zip) fixed the movie rendering bug.
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: johnar on May 03, 2020, 03:05:38 am
Hi Steve (https://i.postimg.cc/VstLb9dQ/Smilewhite.gif)

 Yes, i'm using .wav files and have done comparrisons with different bitrates as shown in attached image.
The Video is now rendering, thanks, but still no sound.
I know the sound isn't being rendered out with the .avi, because when i open the test rendering .avi into my video editor there is no sound file accompanying it.

 I've  attached a zip with a couple of my .wav files enclosed. If any of them work for you, then it must be something here at my end.
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: Trevor on May 03, 2020, 10:44:46 am
Awsome.

I also show a flat line on .wav.

You should update the sticky too (its still 1363)

Trev
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: Steve on May 03, 2020, 03:21:20 pm
Looking into it .....
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: Steve on May 03, 2020, 03:39:36 pm
OK I found a couple of issues:

1) I didn't have any 16-bit examples so I couldn't test 16/sample files.
2) For some reason files with spaces in the name aren't opening when I try to read the underlying data.

I'll have both of these fixed shortly.

And thanks for the sample files (http://www.anim8or.com/em/johnar/smile.gif)
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: Steve on May 03, 2020, 07:57:24 pm
Both of these problems should be fixed with Build 1379 (http://www.anim8or.com/download/preview/files/animcl1379.zip) (http://www.anim8or.com/em/johnar/biggrinnW.gif)

Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: johnar on May 04, 2020, 07:17:44 am
Nice one steve, Its looking good..wav file representation now showing in sound track,(what a beautifull sight) (https://i.postimg.cc/NFQscSY6/Winkwhite.gif)

 but, unfortunately, still not rendering out with .avi . No sign of any sound track being attached to .avi when opening in editing software either.

 I've tried a couple of things. Re naming sound and trying uncompressed and compressed using microsoft video codecs. Not really sure of what more testing i can do. (?)

  Trevor: Are you getting sound in your rendered .avi?

 Gotta say, just  seeing a soundtrack in Anim8or is pretty darn cool. (https://i.postimg.cc/6QhpTB37/Smile-Blnkwhite.gif)
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: dode1 on May 04, 2020, 10:10:10 am
Cinema Modeoff
LEGO Media Logo LEGO Racers (1999)
The LEGO Media logo as it appeared in the original LEGO Racers game on PC. Extracted directly from the game's files. The original video was encoded using the Intel Indeo Video 5.0 Wavelet codec (AVI extension). The audio was encoded as PCM and was embedded in the aforementioned AVI file. Original Filesize: 640480 Original Framerate: 15fps ...

youtube.com1 year ago

I research the indeointel codec......does anything ring a bell?
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: Steve on May 04, 2020, 10:59:32 am
johnar: You're right, Anim8or doesn't render the soundtrack yet.I'm still working on it!
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: johnar on May 04, 2020, 10:10:36 pm
Ahhhh. Well that answers that question. Thanks steve. Nice one.

Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: ianross on May 05, 2020, 07:55:17 am
WOW! this looks really good, thank you Steve.
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: Steve on May 06, 2020, 04:47:30 pm
Updated post that outputs .WAV sound in .AVI output: build 1380 (http://www.anim8or.com/download/preview/files/animcl1380.zip).

.AVI output now includes the soundtrack, with a couple of caveats:

1) The first sound is output.
2) Subsequent sounds that have the same sample rate, precision (8 or 16 bits), and number of channels (i.e. mono or stereo) are also included.
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: dode1 on May 06, 2020, 05:23:08 pm
Success!
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: johnar on May 06, 2020, 09:01:39 pm
Awesome steve
 Sorry to 'assume' that this was already working in first post. Don't know what i was thinking. Just a misunderstanding on my behalf. Sorry about that.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Dfx4BP7W/Rolleyeswhite.gif)

  Have downloaded 1380, looking fwd to trying it out tonight. Thanks steve
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: Steve on May 07, 2020, 10:00:27 am
No worries, johnar!
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: captaindrewi on May 07, 2020, 10:40:12 pm
Ta Steve.AudioTastic.
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: johnar on May 08, 2020, 12:10:41 pm
(https://i.postimg.cc/mr96SrMD/Thumbs-Up-W1.gif) It's Working!!!


Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: Steve on May 08, 2020, 02:22:00 pm
:)
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: dode1 on May 08, 2020, 03:00:27 pm
well done johnar! 
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: Tof on May 08, 2020, 04:19:51 pm
Very nice
 Johnar!  8)
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: johnar on May 08, 2020, 11:24:22 pm
Thanks guys, but it's actually 'well done steve' !!
 I just sorta posted that as a 'look, it's working. We have sound in Anim8or. I added the sound file and animated it directly in scene mode, rendered it out and voala.  No video editing software required. Just blinkin magical. !
 For those of us who have been Anim8oring for some time now, sound in Anim8or has been something on the wishlist for the future. And, well, the future is here. A milestone for Anim8or, and it's awesome.
 steve. Everything seems to be working fine so far, and no 'bugs' to report.

 In your 1st post of this thread you mentioned plans for extra sound related functions, and i'm definately watching this space..........
 As a point of interest, do you think maybe you'll be adding the ability to have more than one sound track? Even just 1 extra track would open up a huge amount of options for sound in Anim8or.
 I had to use audio software to add the 'cymbals', before importing the track into Anim8or. With 2 soundtracks, i could've added the cymbals directly into a second track. (just an example). Other examples could be like, if you have a background track in track one, track 2 can be used for adding extras, like speech, gunfire or just 'countless other random but necessary noises.
 Anyway steve, so far so good.
 I see you've added a new directory for sound files. Nice one.
 Everything you've done so far is just magic. A lot of thought, and obviously a lot of time into it.
 Extremeley well done steve. Hats off.
 (i'll need to make a hats off emotogif)
(https://i.postimg.cc/mr96SrMD/Thumbs-Up-W1.gif)(https://i.postimg.cc/QN9f3CVd/biggrinn-W.gif)
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: Steve on May 09, 2020, 10:41:50 am
Thanks, johnar! What I had in mind adding was annotation and phoneme tracks. The annotation track would just be notes that you could add to help synchronize movement with the sound. The phoneme track would be for a sequence of morph targets to help with speech. Actually it would be a "mouth-shape" track because you can do fairly decent lip-sync with 8 to 12 shapes.

I understand how a second sound track could be useful. The reason I'm reluctant to add one is that it opens up a whole can of worms with mixing, fading, etc. I could add a second track and simply add the sounds, nothing fancy. I don't really understand the math behind sound processing, which is why I don't support sounds with different sampling rates.
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: captaindrewi on May 09, 2020, 10:47:06 pm
Step by wonderful step. The phoneme track sounds like a brilliant idea. 8)
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: johnar on May 10, 2020, 02:40:16 am
Hi steve.
 I do understand that you need to be carefull not to go opening any cans of worms.  Heck, entire 'hefty' programs are written solely for dealing with sounds, and would just hate to see you getting lost down THAT rabbit hole.
  Annotation and phoneme tracks sound like a good way to go, so i dare not risk steering you away from that path, which sounds like quite a job ahead already.

Quote
you can do fairly decent lip-sync with 8 to 12 shapes
.
 Absolutely agree. (or even less, in Anim8or)
 One thing i've found with lip-sync in Anim8or is that using the graph editor to vary the strength of the mouth shape can add a huge amount of options and realism. ie: open mouth can be wide open or slightly open, or a wide smile can also be a little smile. 
 Same phenome shapes, but different results depending on strength of morph.
 Another example with an open mouth phenome. If dragged into the negative value, (graph editor), it can also be used as a closed mouth shape.
 Will phenomes still be editable when the phenome shape is added to the timeline?
 I'm guessing/hoping 'yes'?, because i'm assuming once the mouth shape is added to the timeline it will be entered as a key, and therefore 'editable?

 (geeez, hope i'm not treading on 'can of worms' territory here, just after i said thats the last thing i'd want you to do. lol)  ;)
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: Steve on May 10, 2020, 03:41:29 pm
Phoneme morphs are just normal morph targets and are editable. The idea of the phoneme track is so you can put all the speech for a character in one, easy to edit row that's next to the sound images, instead of requiring many rows off somewhere in the general track window.

(FWIW "phenome" is a term used in biology to describe variations in a species, "phoneme" is a unit of sound in speech (https://www.anim8or.com/em/johnar/grinwaveW.gif)  (https://www.anim8or.com/em/johnar/biggrinnW.gif))
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: johnar on May 10, 2020, 09:23:59 pm
Thanks for your reply steve. cheers.

Quote
"phenome" is a term used in biology to describe variations in a species

 Lol. Here i am, describing computerized mouth shapes as something biological.

 (Hey, maybe i'm just ahead of my time. After all, i'm sure there are biological computers in some sci-fi movies i've seen)(https://i.postimg.cc/Dfx4BP7W/Rolleyeswhite.gif)

 But honestly, it makes sense now.
 
 'Phon' as used in 'phonograph' and 'phonics' Both sound related, so it's now quite plain to see that 'phoneme' also relates to sound.

   thanks for clearing that up.
Must be  time for a cuppa tea.(https://i.postimg.cc/5tHMW1zd/SSG03W.gif)
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: Gyperboloid on May 11, 2020, 10:27:35 am
Phono - from greek "φωνή " [ f o 'n i ] = voice.  Phenome ( aka phenotype - φαινότυπος ) - from greek φαίνεσθαι [ 'f e n e s th e ] = looks like. :)

Bonus  :) : Tele - from greek "τήλε" [ 't i l e ] = from a distance.
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: johnar on May 20, 2020, 09:54:04 pm
Quote
I understand how a second sound track could be useful. The reason I'm reluctant to add one is thads, nothing fancy.t it opens up a whole can of worms with mixing, fading, etc. I could add a second track and simply add the sound

 Hi steve.
 Can't stop thinking about this.
 If you did add a 'basic' 2nd track, even rendered out in mono, the extra creativity at the user end would, imho,  more than double the scope of any Anim8or film project which uses only one sound track.

(https://i.postimg.cc/Dfx4BP7W/Rolleyeswhite.gif)that was a mouthfull (https://i.postimg.cc/Dfx4BP7W/Rolleyeswhite.gif)

 back me up, someone. (https://i.postimg.cc/6QhpTB37/Smile-Blnkwhite.gif)

 If you do decide to add this steve, the 2nd track could be hidden, by default, and accessed through options -> ?
 
Couple of thoughts while i'm at it, which may be bordering on getting that can-opener a bit close to the can, but not actually opening it

-When using 2 soundtracks, its sometimes handy to be able to 'mute' 1 or both tracks, usually done with a button on the track 'header(?)'.

 and.....i see that sound plays when selecting just a section of the timeframes, thats really cool, and so handy when trying to sync to a waveform thats lacking some obvious peaks.
 Another very handy piece of kit, related, is if the sound plays frame by frame. (using fwd and bck arrow keys) Very good when trying to locate exactly when that 'phoneme' shape lands, or, 'sounds'.

 Some food for thought anyway,steve.
 I do think a 2nd 'basic' soundtrack would be a really good idea. (https://i.postimg.cc/NFQscSY6/Winkwhite.gif)
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: captaindrewi on May 21, 2020, 08:00:32 am
The primary need for a sound track in Anim8or for me is for accurate lip syncing. I can easily add additional sound tracks in post edit software such as Hitfilm Express which is free.
So i'd rather Steve conclude his original plans for the audio track before attempting the addition of a second track which he has explained could be a trickier endeavour.
Though having said that and giving it more thought, obviously technical wise, two would be better than one and three well that would be just greedy. :)
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: Steve on May 21, 2020, 11:41:55 am
Good ideas all! Stay tuned, there's more to come!
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: captaindrewi on May 21, 2020, 12:05:09 pm


Goodo Steve and Jonah. :)

I had been working on a number of 2d scenes and characters for some time, Knowing that one day AUDIO would come.
 8)

ps That's not my real voice I'm in character. :-\
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: Steve on May 21, 2020, 01:04:55 pm
:)
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: johnar on May 23, 2020, 02:13:44 am
captaindrewi
 Nice short clip. Tho i could barely hear it here, but thats more to do with the laptop i'm using, i think.

 I agree with what you said, about first things first and all. Totally.
 I understand extra sound can be added in post production, and theres decent freeware out there available to do that. Was just keeping in mind that a video clip, with sound, can now be produced totally in Anim8or, with no post production required. Thats pretty cool in itself.
 A second track would just make that even better. (imho)
 But yes, i wouldn't want it to get in the way of plans steve already has. (https://i.postimg.cc/VstLb9dQ/Smilewhite.gif)
 
steve
Quote
Stay tuned, there's more to come!
Man i love it when you say that! (https://i.postimg.cc/QN9f3CVd/biggrinn-W.gif)
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: Kevin Gales on May 23, 2020, 05:52:24 am
I tried the sound feature on build 1380 I am getting a straight line..the sound plays but I can't scrub
Is it me or??
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: thecolclough on May 23, 2020, 07:25:38 am
for those agitating for multiple tracks... you could pre-compile your audio into one .wav file, using Audacity (https://www.audacityteam.org) for example.  that way you could have as many different overlapping sounds as you want without needing multiple tracks within Anim8or.
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: Steve on May 23, 2020, 10:39:09 am
Kevin Gales: Are you using a .WAV file or a .MP3 file? Anim8or can play both but can only show the waveform for .WAV files.
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: Kevin Gales on May 23, 2020, 01:00:17 pm
Kevin Gales: Are you using a .WAV file or a .MP3 file? Anim8or can play both but can only show the waveform for .WAV files.
I found the problem...when I used a raw wav file the waveform appears.. but when I converted mp3 to wav it was just straight...I guess maybe it's something that has to do with the codecs...


So you haven't implemented scrubbing yet..right?or am I missing something?
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: Steve on May 23, 2020, 05:35:20 pm
Sound doesn't play when scrubbing. I'm not sure how to do that. I can only play sound at a fixed rate, and not in reverse. I also don't know how it should work.
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: Kevin Gales on May 24, 2020, 05:20:51 am
Sound doesn't play when scrubbing. I'm not sure how to do that. I can only play sound at a fixed rate, and not in reverse. I also don't know how it should work.
Well most music players have it...it is useful when lipsyncing or just syncing audio with video...
you will notice how difficult it gets to lipsync without scrubbing

I hope you find a way around that...😀🌟
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: johnar on May 24, 2020, 09:40:04 am
thecolclough
Quote
for those agitating for multiple tracks... you could pre-compile your audio into one .wav file, using Audacity for example.  that way you could have as many different overlapping sounds as you want without needing multiple tracks within Anim8or.

 Not actually agitating for multiple tracks, just saying that 'one' more track would be a very handy addition.
 True about pre-mixing a sound track and then animating to it, but also don't forget about the films that bring in the 'voiceover and sound effect crew', after the fact,  adding voices and sounds to already existing film.
  Not all workflows are the same.
  I was, also, more thinking of anim8ors capabilities to make a 'finished product' filmclip  without needing any type of outside video or audio software.
  One track is fine.  You add a .wav voice file and lypsync/animate to it. He jumps from standing on a chair and lands on the ground. You add a short 'thud' .wav file to the same track 'after' the speech file. Thats all well and good. But what if he was bouncing a ball through the whole thing, or you just needed some background music. Not possible without external software. (pre-editing or post-editing)
 A 2nd track, however, gives you all those extra 'possibillities' within anim8or.

 Like i've said, just a 'basic' 2nd track, and only worthwhile if its not opening a can of worms.
(audacity is pretty cool, btw)

 steve
Re 'scrubbing' the audio. Thought that could be a tricky one.
 
But here's a crazy thought from the outfield.
 (warning! 'crazy thought' possible  side effects could include mild to severe irratation and/or headaches.)

 If you can
Quote
only play sound at a fixed rate,
could that fixed rate be determined by two 'selected' frames.?
 I mean, at pesent, a 'selection' of frames will play when you hit 'play'
 So, Could, eg, the arrow key, be used to 'play' two frames at each push. The frame selected and the adjoining 'forward' frame. (selected automatically).
 Not actually 'scrubbing', as such, but .... accomplishing much the same thing.
 (end of crazy thought)
 
 Another 'aide' i've used in Magpie is 'selecting a portion of audio and hitting 'zoom' That's handy for a closer look at the .wav file, but i have no idea of the 'worm' potential in 'zooming in on selection'.

 At the end of the day, when it comes to lyp-syncing, people should try to choose/create the voice file which is the clearist waveform possible. Life is so much easier when sound files are clear and 'succinct'. (https://i.postimg.cc/NFQscSY6/Winkwhite.gif)  (https://i.postimg.cc/5tHMW1zd/SSG03W.gif)

 
     
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: Steve on September 08, 2020, 08:57:47 am
In build 1393 (http://www.anim8or.com/download/preview/files/animcl1393.zip) rendered videos now include all .WAV sounds. You can specify the projects Sound Spec in the Scene->Properties->Sound dialog which defaults to the first sound that you add. Any sound that has a different sample rate, number of chanels (stereo/mono) or bits per sample will be converted to match the spund spec. Note: I'm using a primitive filter to convert sample rates, which I will be improving. So you might notice a slight degradation in sould quality for some conversions.
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: ianross on September 09, 2020, 06:12:49 am
Thank you Steve.
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: johnar on September 09, 2020, 07:05:58 am
Well done steve
 Can't wait to try it out.
 Thank you.
 Will post some feedback after giving it a go.
 Congrats on getting your head around the programming nuances of sound files. (https://i.postimg.cc/NFQscSY6/Winkwhite.gif)
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: johnar on September 30, 2020, 07:45:29 am
 Hi steve
 Have been really busy of late. Sorry i haven't had a chance to try 1393 yet.
 Thanks for all your work, and keep well. (https://i.postimg.cc/6QhpTB37/Smile-Blnkwhite.gif)
Title: Re: Sound in Anim8or
Post by: dob on October 07, 2020, 08:10:24 pm
Thank you, Steve! Looks like I picked the perfect time to start learning 3D animation! I've previously used Anim8or (since 2009) to make models for pictures, but not much else. In the past few months I've been using it to make basic animations and it's been so much fun! I'll be sure to let you know if I run into any bugs.