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[Steve]

Gyperboloid and johnar:
"That ALT usage for the Arc Rotate is good, although I hope Steve wont shut down the old good Ctrl + r shortcut for it"
Absolutely - I don't plan to change that

Gyperboloid, kreator and Raxx:
"I ... paint-select functionality in fast-edit mode for Ctrl ..."
OK I see the problem now . I'll fix it so that in both Fast-Select and Normal, in both the Object Editor and the Point Editor it'll work like this while holding the <Ctrl> key:

LMB: On mouse click: Deselect everything and select anything the mouse is on.
On mouse move: Paint-select things the mouse touches.

MMB: On mouse click: Deselect anything the mouse is on.
On mouse move: Paint-deselect.

RMB: On mouse click: Select anything the mouse is on.
On mouse move: Paint-select things the mouse touches.

This is for Arrow-Select, Rotate, Scale, and Move. In Point-edit Move the MMB will move in the normal direction.

[Steve]

OK I see what happened. When I implemented using the <Alt> key for a quick arc-rotate, Anim8or couldn't use the <Alt>+RMB to simulate MMB. I changed that to <Ctrl>+<~Shift>+RMB ==> MMB. That made the RMB unavailable whenever the <Ctrl> key is pressed.

What to do.
1) Do we need a substitute for MMB?
2) If so is it OK to use <Shift>+<~Ctrl>? Or

[Steve]

I have this working now but with some caveats - there are too many existing uses of the <Alt>, <Shift> and <Ctrl> keys to maintain all previous choices. So:

1) There is no alternative for MMB. You must have a 3-button mouse (or wheel mouse that clicks) to use the middle button.
2) Currently there is no way to move points along their normals. The <Ctrl> key now temporarily switches into paint-select. The <Shift> key was already used to change grid-snap to be relative to the old position (as opposed to no <Shift> which is globally snapped). There are no good keys left to use. OK that was typing without thinking. The Move points tool can use the MMB for moving along normals.

We have to make choices. I think that having the paint-select functionality widely available is a big enough win to override existing rules. There are other ways to support move-by-normals, (or possibly remove the local-vs-global grid snap use of the <Shift> key) but they won't be as convenient. Let me know what you think.

[johnar]

 Sorry, my input here may be a little left field. I'm not doing the fast mode and modelling thing as much as others involved here in this conversation, so my opinion on a lot of these things would not really be keeping up with the play.
 Although, if i feel i may have a helpfull thought, i'll defineately voice it.
 So, heres one, which may have merits, but could actually be way off the mark.
 re:

there are too many existing uses of the <Alt>, <Shift> and <Ctrl> keys to maintain all previous choices.

...steve
 I'm looking at my keyboard, and wondering what else could be available. So heres a thought. (just a thought).
 All the numpad keys are used for changing views, except the 1(?). In keeping in line with numpad being used for views, could the '1' be used for fast arc rotate. (or normal arc rotate) somehow.
 Arc rotate uses the Ctrl. (Ctrl+r), and the Alt. Perhaps moving Arc rotate over to the numpad could 1) keep all view keys in the same area, and 2) free up the Ctrl and Alt keys a little.
 Perhaps even just click numpad 1 for ArcRotate ON and again for ArcRotate OFF?
  maybe........?

Gyperboloid and johnar:
"That ALT usage for the Arc Rotate is good, although I hope Steve wont shut down the old good Ctrl + r shortcut for it"
Absolutely - I don't plan to change that

Yes i know. Ironic i should suggest a change here. lol. 

[Raxx]

Steve, your quandary is what was troubling me for a while now. Ctrl, Shift, and Alt are very useful but also very precious. I think it's great having Ctrl as paint-select, it's worth having. Alt for arc rotate is a no-brainer, in my opinion, as it's already been invaluable to me. For the shift key...I think the gridsnap relative/global deal can be a Options->Grid setting. This would free it up for more high-demand uses for Shift, such as alternate functionality for tools, or to toggle a more sophisticated Snap functionality available to all tools.

I agree with the 3-button mouse requirement. This is production software so it's not unreasonable. Also, there are programs that'll let a user define a keyboard key as a middle click (heck, it's easy to program it using autohotkey).

Johnar, the point of having Alt to toggle Arc Rotate is its quick accessibility and rapid, intuitive, usage. Traditionally: Right-hand on the mouse, left hand on the left side of the keyboard. Once you're used to using Alt, you'll be using it all the time without having to think about it, especially if you're doing in-depth work. Personally, I use it every couple of seconds during modeling sessions that last up to 3-4 hours. We're talking thousands of hits--and I use it a lot when rigging and animating too.


It might be about time for a fundamental addition to the UI/process in Anim8or. Anim8or is getting sophisticated to the point where non-beginner/high-level/low-demand stuff will begin crowding the basic workflow, yet still needs to be there and quickly accessible to the advanced users.

Here are some ideas:

• Right-click buttons for context menus that give more options.
• Right-click buttons and toggle a different alternate function or "mode" for that button--changes that button's appearance to reflect the change
• Keyboard shortcut that pops up a context menu (radial would be interesting) on the cursor--context-sensitive obviously. Like if the move tool was active, if the menu pops up then there'd be options pertaining to the move tool
• Have a slide-out panel on the right-hand side for advanced options, parameters, and information--that changes based on the selected tool and selected workspace elements. Basically, similar to what nearly all other programs are doing

So...I don't know about others, but my left-hand thumb is always on Alt or nearby it. Food for thought: Spacebar is right next to Alt. I consider it a candidate modifier key for, say, the context-menu stuff I mentioned above. Space is currently used to clear the selection, yes, but single-clicking in empty space could be implemented to clear the selection instead.

Just my two cents

[johnar]

Traditionally: Right-hand on the mouse, left hand on the left side of the keyboard. Once you're used to using Alt, you'll be using it all the time without having to think about it,

 I sorta figured that moving quick access for arc rotate to the right hand side probably wouldn't really cut it. Just at the time thought it might free up some Alt and Ctrl usage, but i do understand what you're saying. Good point, and point taken.   Cheers Raxx

[Steve]

Build 1143 is ready to download.

[neirao]

thanks Steve, but in my test still not work the SHORTCUT " 't' hotkey used for Edit->Select->SelectFaceEdges."

[Steve]

Arrrgh, forgot to include the file with the fix in build 1143. It'll be in the next one.

[johnar]

Hi raxx.
 I gave you such a short reply before, sorry, was rushed at the time.
 Got some thoughts on yours.

Right-click buttons for context menus that give more options.

I've always been a fan of right click menus. It you cant find it somewhere else, it just might be there. .

Right-click buttons and toggle a different alternate function or "mode" for that button--changes that button's appearance to reflect the change.

That sounds cool. Good old right click as well. Not something you normally hit by accident.
 Also helps to keep things out of the way.

The other 2 are a bit beyond me right now, but i'm sure they have merit.
 Absolutely agree with the  right click suggestions
 I should say that i, (i'm sure many) do really like the ápparent simplicity 'of anim8or, and although she's getting more powerfull under the hood, it doesn't scare you when you open it, its friendly, and it goes well. lol

 One more thing.

'Thumb on the Alt Button'

Excellent. Thats probably, for me, the quote of the year
I'm hooked on it. Its just such a good thing.
   Thank you for the tip, raxx  (and thanks steve, for the button. 
 

[cooldude234]

Alt for arc rotate is a no-brainer, in my opinion, as it's already been invaluable to me

I really want that moved to the z key though, I really miss my alt-print screen, I use that pretty much every time I use anim8or (for rough sketches on top of 3D models) and its really annoying having to crop an image from it when I use just normal print screen (dual monitor set up makes the total resolution of an print screen to be 5280x2160).

[Steve]

One new release before Christmas: Build 1145 extends fast select to most tools in Point Edit mode and a few other goodies. Se this topic's main entry for details

[Raxx]

Hey Steve, the extension to the other point-edit tools is great! It's a natural evolution, in my opinion

A couple of comments:

• It's missing Ctrl-Paint Selection functionality
• It's still very easy (for me) to accidentally screw up a selection while in fast edit mode by accidentally moving the mouse one or two pixels while clicking, which Anim8or registers as a click-drag instead of just a click. It'd be great if Anim8or ignores the first couple of pixels of movement before registering it as a click-drag, and otherwise treats it as a click if the mouse is released.
• The Add Edge tool crashes almost every time I try out the new split faces function. Otherwise I'm fairly excited if you're going to take this idea further
• You can't single-select knots in point-edit mode
• Not related to the new release, but it'd be awesome if when the option to load the last opened file is enabled (Start in Previous), if the previous file fails to load, it no longer tries loading it in subsequent Anim8or sessions and instead creates a new project.

[captaindrewi]

hi steve, why is there no closed option in the knot editor?
as there used to be with the old path parameters in 0.98.

[Steve]

Raxx:

Ctrl-draw: Oops! Forgot to add it! I'll have it in the next build.
Accidental drag: Working on this ...
Add Edge: #098-054 - Add edge can crash when splitting a face. Looks lie I didn't do enough testing here.
Knots in Point Editor: Working on this too ... at least I fixed the crashes in #098-051
Load failures: Yes, any failure should remove that file from the list. I've wanted to d that for a while but it never got to the top of the priorities.

captaindrewi: This is only available in the main Object editor if you double-click on the path when you are not in path-edit mode. I think it's always been this way.