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[johnar]

Clicking on an unselected bone:
LMB and MMB: deselects everything and selects that one bone.
RMB: Leaves everything selected and selects the bone.

Heres an idea.
 Keep LMB to deselect everything and select that one bone, and use MMB to turn trackball on/off on that bone!

[Steve]

johnar: the reason that I changed the rotations for the LMB, etc. is that that functionality was replaced by the trackball. Then I combined the rotate and bone length functions so you could add new bones very quickly (click-drag to add a new bone in whatever length and position you wanted in one action). New bones are added in plane of the screen.

Given how that worked, when rotating bones directly (i.e. not using the trackball) you click-drag the mouse on a bone using the "normal" LMB and it rotates exactly in the same way it does when you add bones, in the screen's Z-axis.

OK then there are two more mouse buttons.  I thought adding the ability to rotate in the screen's X- and Y-axis could use the other buttons - perhaps this is to complex. Those rotations aren't as common and you can always use the trackball. Maybe the best thing to do is keep the rotations the same for all mouse buttons and just change the selection action for the MMB and RMB.

Proposed change:

When clicking directly on a bone (i.e. not the trackball):

LMB rotates the bone in screen Z axis,
MMB rotates the bone in screen Y axis Z axis,
RMB rotates the bone in screen X axis Z axis.

Comments welcome

[johnar]

Ok. Thanks for that explanation Steve.

"Then I combined the rotate and bone length functions so you could add new bones very quickly (click-drag to add a new bone in whatever length and position you wanted in one action). New bones are added in plane of the screen".

This is totally understandable in Figure mode. Nice one.
 When it comes to animating a figure in sequence and scene modes, however,(when not using trackball, and clicking directly on the bone), it is far easier to use the original mouse button functions for rotating a bone along its true axis. (the colored axis paths shown when 'show axis' is turned on)
 So, is it possible to keep the original LMB-X axis, RMB-Y axis, and MMB-Z axis, in sequence and scene modes? (When clicking directly on a bone (i.e. not the trackball))
 Am also looking forward to others thoughts/comments.
 Thanks. 

[Steve]

johnar: I could do this but we need to work out how to select new bones when fast select is off.  If the MMB deselects (maybe we can drop this) then it can't be used to rotate, things like this.

Also note that the original colored axis indications are not the same as the axis in the trackball. They are the computer euler angles while a trackball is a orthogonal 3D space representing the current joint's orientation.

[thecolclough]

If the MMB deselects (maybe we can drop this) then it can't be used to rotate, things like this.

couldn't it be made to work the same as the object-mode move tool does with FS enabled, i.e. a simple click and a click-and-drag do two different things?  the logical implementation (at least to my thinking) would be: MMB-click deselects, while MMB-drag moves/rotates.  that works pretty well in Object mode.

obviously with FS off, then MMB always moves/rotates rather than deselecting.

[johnar]

   

If the MMB deselects (maybe we can drop this) then it can't be used to rotate, things like this.

couldn't it be made to work the same as the object-mode move tool does with FS enabled, i.e. a simple click and a click-and-drag do two different things?  the logical implementation (at least to my thinking) would be: MMB-click deselects, while MMB-drag moves/rotates.  that works pretty well in Object mode.

obviously with FS off, then MMB always moves/rotates rather than deselecting.

If this works, then, with FS off, could MMB be used in conjunction with a key, to deselect?

[Steve]

I'm experimenting with various options and the one that seems most consistent makes Fast-Select and Non-Fast-Select almost identical. The only different between them is that clicking on an unselected bone doesn't allow editing unless Fast-Select is enabled. Everything else is the same.

Click without drag only changes the selection (LMB=1 bone, MMB=deselect bone, RMB=add bone like
everywhere else). Click-drag directly on a bone rotates in the X/Y/Z axes, depending on the button. OK so far, so good.

However there is one small inconsistency that I can't eliminate with the all three buttons used for rotation like this: For the MMB I don't know whether to deselect the bone on not until the button is released since moving does a rotation and leaves the bone selected, while non moving leaves it deselected. So you will see the effect of the selection immediately for the LMB and RMB - but not until you move the mouse or release the button for the MMB.

I don't see this as a big issue and think the functionality of being able to rotate in all 3 axis by directly clicking on the bone is worth keeping. And there aren't any new keys to remember to hold down, etc. so I think it will be easier to learn.

I'll have something posted soon for everyone to try. Hopefully we're nearing the end of tweaking how this all works

Note: I haven't forgotten about being able to hide individual trackballs.

[johnar]

Nice one Steve. That sounds excellent. 

Note: I haven't forgotten about being able to hide individual trackballs.

[Steve]

I've posted build 1201 with what is hopefully the final design for trackball bone editing interface. There are still some weird rotations with bone limits but that's not quite finished. The executive summary is:

1. Clicking on a trackball edits as you'd expect.  No changes to any selections.
2. Click-no drag on a bone only selects/deselects using the normal LMB/MMB/RMB rules.
3. Click-dragging on an unselected bone deselects everything and selects that bone. In fast select mode you can rotate it.  In non fast select it's only selected. This is the only difference between fast select and non.
3. Click-dragging on a selected bone rotates it in the axis for what ever button you clicked with.

[thecolclough]

sounds good; nice and consistent with how other tools have been developing - will take it for a spin ASAP =]

[johnar]

When click-dragging, (FS) on a bone there is wierdnessess, which can be seen by a fairly simple test. This happens whether or not there are joint limits.
 It seems, when animating a figure it is necessary to be in a standard view. (when click-dragging directly on bone)?. Once the view is rotated, (arc rotate), thats when things don't work as expected.
 Heres the test, can someone please concur....

Open anim8or 1201, or any build with trackball, and open an earlier version, pre trackball.
 Import the same figure into each one.
 Goto scene mode and add figure and have 3 views, front (large view), top and left.
 Arc-rotate the front view slightly off center in both instances.
 In pre-trackball build, (arc-rotated view), Click-drag thigh bone forward/backward on X axis. (LMB). Perfect X axis rotation. Same with Y and Z.
 Now, try the same in 1201........(or other build with trackball) 
 Rotation is not confined to selected axis only
 Is this anything to do with the complexities of having both euler and orthogonal  calculations happening at the same time, or something along those lines...


 
 
 
 

[Steve]

johnar: Yes, I changed how click-dragging directly on the bone works when I added the trackball.  I wasn't really sure what to do there but at the time it seemed more consistent to use Screen-Coordinates.  But as you point out some functionality was lost when I did this.  Also it's redundant since you can always use Screen-Coordinates mode and the trackball for the same edit.

I'll put together a build with the old rotations for direct bone editing and let everyone try that out.

[johnar]

Thanks steve. Thats magic.
 I, for one, will definately be in favour of keeping the old rotations for direct bone editing.  Having that option, along with trackball, really would be the best of both worlds.
 Absolutely cool.

Note: I haven't forgotten about being able to hide individual trackballs.

Hopefully we're nearing the end of tweaking how this all works

 The updates you've made here have made a massive difference to animating in Anim8or. These last few  tweaks and fixes, and she'll be a real pleasure to drive.
Cheers steve. 

[AlecJames]

Version 1258
I have a figure in scene editor that I have scaled down (0.1ish).  The bone track balls are tiny in top / side / front views.  I'm fairly sure this is related to my unusual scaling.
A

[Steve]

Oops! I forgot to include the element's scale when I computed the size of the widget. To keep the widget a constant size I need to undo the scale factor  . I'll fix it.