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[selden]

Problem:  scaling of point positions doesn't always work in v1.00b

With two sets of points selected at opposite ends (top and bottom) of a mesh and Y axis is selected, applying scaling (moving the mouse up and down vertically) should cause those groups to move up and down, toward and away from one another.  Instead, nothing seems to happen. My impression is that each group is being treated individually instead of as a set: when all axes are enabled, applying scaling using the mouse, the relative positions of the points in the ends contract within each group.

Flattening in the Y dimension has been applied to both sets of end points independently, which might be related.

This works in v0.98: the mesh's end points move up and down.

I've attached screengrabs and a mesh which can be used to demonstrate this problem: vertical scaling works in v0.98 but not in v1.00b

edited to add:

This vertical scaling problem is also present when one starts with a (vertical) cylinder, selects its ends and does an "inset". With scaling selected, the central (selected) inset regions of the two ends won't move up and down relative to one another.

[Trevor]

yeah, it will only do connected verticies.

there are times when this is desirable, but others like this one where they are not.
Same goes for rotation, sometimes rotating a group of verticies about a common center is good, othertimes it would be better to rotate round model center (the draggable one... pivot point I think its called)

Trev

[Steve]

See the thread on new Point Editing rules for why things work like this.
New Point Editing Rules: New build 1143

Here's the part about scaling:

b2. Geometry (Scale):
         LMB/MMB/RMB: Scales selected geometry around the geometric center of selected groups of Points/Edges/Faces.
         Note: Isolated single points don't move. Think about it if this seems strange

      b3. Geometry (Scale Non-Uniform):
         LMB: Scale connected groups in X/Y directions independently (screen aligned).
         MMB: No effect.
         RMB: Scale in the Z direction (e.g. into and out of the screen).

[selden]

I really don't understand: the "think about it" doesn't mean anything to me. I find it quite disappointing, since it disrupts workflows that I've become used to over the years, and makes it quite difficult to do balanced modifications to a mesh since a modification to one side is not reflected on the other side. Still, I can continue to use v0.98 for those particular types of operations.

[Steve]

Single isolated points are their own center point. They are 0 distance from the "center". If you scale their distance form the center it always stays the same value: 0 so they don't move.

[selden]

Unfortunately, to the naive user, they aren't "single isolated groups." They're all selected, just in different locations in the mesh. It worked in v0.98. It'd be really nice if it could be an option in v1.0, even if the scaling were relative to Anim8or's origin instead of the center-of-gravity of the point cloud.

[Trevor]

Ah, wait a second, the top of that post is
IF Fast Select enabled
...
Else
classic an8 behavior

So, since fast select was disabled, that means this is a bug?

Fast select has no bearing on the result from testing just now.


Now, I remember saying at the time that I loved it, but not that long ago I found a use for the "classic" method, with no way to do it.
However, using fast select as a rule changer is not the best method. I think it would be good to have another button up there with a few verticies and an axis as its icon.
90% of the time Id probably have it enabled, but, sometimes its necessary to use pivot point for 2 or more groups if verticies. one example could be a star or cog wheel.

many thanks,
Trev

[Steve]

Trevor: that was just the initial design. There was a lot of discussing afterwards.

selden: I just looked through the code and surprise!! there is already a solution for your particular problem. All isolated points are put into a group of their own and will scale from that center. So if you click on the "Points" button all the edges will be deselected, with just the points remaining selected. Now if you Scale-NonUniform with just the Y axis enabled the will move as you wanted. Note: Extend PFE selections in the File->ConfigureGUI dialog needs to be selected.

This also works for making a star or cog-wheel.

[selden]

Steve,

Thanks!

That'll help a lot.