Anim8or Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Ian Ross has just released a book on Anim8or. It's perect for a beginner and a good reference for experienced users. It contains detailed chapters on every aspect, with many examples. Get your own copy here: "Anim8or Tutorial Book"

Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic: animating phoneme morph targets  (Read 2127 times)

exile

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 37
    • View Profile
animating phoneme morph targets
« on: April 03, 2021, 02:12:36 pm »

(Version in use: 1400) I finally have a head with phoneme morph targets and a wav file loaded in the scene editor.

Problem 1:  I can't see the sound wave graphic, which makes finding the moment to insert the phoneme morph more difficult. It's hard to find the right frame only by scrubbing.

Problem 2: According to Ian's book, there is supposed to be a phoneme editor accessible through Edit/Edit Phoneme Track. After I choose the character, it seems to add a track as I selected, but then nothing happens. The only way to edit the morphs I can see is with the key value editor, which requires at least a zero frame, a 1 frame and another zero frame for each morph - the mysterious phoneme editor is supposed to automatically put in the zero frames.

Problem 3: After inserting the right morph 3-4 frames too late, I tried to copy the keys with Ctrl+x and insert them in the right place. Ctrl+v did not put the keys back in. When I checked the morphs, that one had been deleted. So I had no choice but to close the program without saving.

Of course the first animation of a voice over won't be easy, but this rate I'll never get it done. Any help will be appreciated.
Logged

Steve

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2054
    • View Profile
Re: animating phoneme morph targets
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2021, 06:06:43 pm »

Are you using .wav files or .mp3 files? Only .wav files show the audio wave. I haven't figured out how to read the .mp3 data yet.

To use phonemes:

1. Add a Figure or an Object that has morphs.
2. Build->AddSound. Click the Load button and load a .wav sound file.
3. Edit->EditPhonemeTrack and select the Figure/Object in the drop down dialog.
4. Click Add Track in the dialog and close it.
5. Double click on the Phoneme Track on the frame where you want to add a phoneme and select it from the Morph drop down.

3 or 4 blue keys will be added to the morph's track in the track window for the start, middle, and end. You can adjust the length of the lead, length, and fade in the Phoneme dialog. Double click on a phoneme in the phoneme track anytime to edit it.
Logged

exile

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 37
    • View Profile
Re: animating phoneme morph targets
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2021, 06:56:14 pm »

Thanks very much, I kept clicking on the sound track and didn't see the gray morph track. The first word is taken care of. My .wav file is standard, 44.1 Hz and 16 bit stereo. No wave form visible. I tried saving it from another program and importing that file, no difference. But the phoneme morph editor is great. 

Wishing you a happy Easter Sunday and good health in these strange times.
Logged

Steve

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2054
    • View Profile
Re: animating phoneme morph targets
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2021, 07:35:29 pm »

Does the sound play? If so the waveform should show up in the soundtrack. Can you send me the .wav file?

Happy Easter Sunday (also my birthday :))
Logged

exile

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 37
    • View Profile
Re: animating phoneme morph targets
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2021, 03:33:21 am »

Happy Birthday and Happy Easter, Steve. I read you are in Italy, we're almost neighbors, I live in Germany. I'm a Steve too, but won't sign with it in this forum because some people might think I'm the "real Steve" who knows the answers to their questions.

First of all, please take a holiday break from answering queries, including this one. It can wait.

When you're ready, here is a smaller audio file that didn't show as a wave form, only a straight orange line (my file for the project is over 5 MB and wouldn't upload). It plays fine. Maybe it's the Intel graphic card? I tried both ARB and GSL views.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2021, 03:34:17 am by exile »
Logged

johnar

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 992
  • Make it, Move it--Give it Life
    • View Profile
    • youtube vids
Re: animating phoneme morph targets
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2021, 02:05:03 am »

Hi there exile
 I downloaded the .wav file and tried it here. Same result as you. Plays, but doesn't show the wav.
 Then i opened it in sound forge 7, saved it as a .wav, same properties, then tried again in anim8or, and this time the .wav file graphic does show.

 I checked the properties and both appear to be the same.

 I've attached the copy for you to try.
 If it shows now, at your end, then, um, not sure where the problem is.
 Maybe try opening your original in another sound editor and saving again. ?
 If that works then there's something going on with your original sound software or hardware. ?
 Not sure
« Last Edit: April 05, 2021, 02:05:24 am by johnar »
Logged
%

exile

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 37
    • View Profile
Re: animating phoneme morph targets
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2021, 07:32:03 am »

Johnar, it worked like magic! Not only did your file show up with wave forms, I found a solution for the actual voiceover for the talking head. I had already tried saving the file, created in Tracktion, with Acoustica, my go-to sound editor. What I hadn't tried was opening it in Audacity and exporting it from there. That did the trick.

I wonder: I used the 64-bit editions of Tracktion and Acoustica, but Audacity is a 32-bit program. Could that be the reason? In any case, it really helps to see the wave graphic. I tried to plow ahead by selecting small bits of the time track to isolate words, but I can't do this blind, the morphs were off target (in the attachment, he's saying "Don't laugh at me" - the s is an attempted smile that looks more like a grimace or a stretch-out e sound).

Just so you are forewarned, the head of Peter Punker was made following Ian Ross' book, but the eyes are from a Johnar tutorial.
Logged

Steve

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2054
    • View Profile
Re: animating phoneme morph targets
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2021, 12:45:12 pm »

I found the problem with the .wav file that you are using. The second "format" field is set to "JUNK" instead of "fmt " so Anim8or stops trying to read the sound data to display it. But Windows can still play the sound file.

Note: I'm changing Anim8or to use a single combined sound file that it automatically builds instead of playing the original data. This will allow me to add multiple sound tracks but it means that .mp3 files and strangely defiled files like this one won't play.
Logged

exile

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 37
    • View Profile
Re: animating phoneme morph targets
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2021, 01:45:07 pm »

It's horrible the way computer programs do things behind the user's back that only an expert can figure out. Tracktion is now free, but it was paid software when I bought it.

I've completed the test run of my first 3D head. Not sure where to post it and where not. If it's ok I'll put a link here and in the thread about Ian's book, since all but the Johnar eyes is based on it. If it's not ok I'll delete it.


Logged

Steve

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2054
    • View Profile
Re: animating phoneme morph targets
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2021, 02:49:47 pm »

Nice work! Made me laugh
Logged

Claude

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 282
    • View Profile
Re: animating phoneme morph targets
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2021, 03:16:04 pm »

Love it. Great work.
Suggestion: please limit the head rotation, so that
we don't lose sight of the lips and the eyes.
Logged

exile

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 37
    • View Profile
Re: animating phoneme morph targets
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2021, 06:00:06 pm »

Thanks to both Johnar and Claude. The rotation (meant to go with "modeled my head") does take away from the hard work of lip synchronizing - the turnaround should happen at a time when he is not speaking, or just be limited - the easiest option. Great to have an exercise taken seriously - that's encouraging for a novice.

I'd like to learn to model a better head, no interest in photorealistic characters, just cartoon figures and marionette-style puppets. It's great to have this forum to ask questions. The responses are incredibly fast.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2021, 06:28:50 pm by exile »
Logged

johnar

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 992
  • Make it, Move it--Give it Life
    • View Profile
    • youtube vids
Re: animating phoneme morph targets
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2021, 07:30:41 pm »

 Well done exile.

Edit: Something i found when lipsyncing was to do that part first, and animate the character after you've finished the lipsync.
Eyes can be done during, or after, animation, as moving the character will determine where the eyes will be looking, but the timing of the voice wav file doesn't change, so it's easier to do the mouthwork when the character is not moving.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2021, 04:31:38 am by johnar »
Logged
%

exile

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 37
    • View Profile
Re: animating phoneme morph targets
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2021, 08:43:57 am »

Johnar, thatís how I did it, or tried to. So the lips are still moving during that stupid head rotation, which I will correct. Iím a long ways from mastering lip sync, the visual sound wave helps, but thereís also anticipation - mouths move before sounds are formed. Length of sound isnít easy either, I was still unsure after different tries. A character without teeth doesn't have a convincing f. But I liked these results a lot better than with automatic lip sync with Papagayo in 2D programs.
There are two things I really appreciate about the phoneme morph editor: 1) it doesnít seem to matter if the next sound comes before the fade of the last one is finished - by default, it looks like you would need five frames minimum before inserting another phoneme or you would have to manually replace fade out and fade in. That doesnít seem to be necessary. 2) I went back to the object editor, deleted and reprogrammed a phoneme under the same name. The scene editor accepted the change and the key frames with that phoneme were still active and worked with the new shape. No extra work.
I donít know if this is right, but it seems like my slightly dopey open-mouthed default position was a  lucky accident, because the transitions are smoother and it covers up slightly inexact timing. The neutral, or closed-mouth position was a morph and not the default zero in the phoneme editor.
Edit: Adding 2nd try here, the rotation was put at the end. Don't know if the head movements are too exaggerated now. It was impossible to delete the head rotation keyframes alone, I had to redo everything past those actions. The software "remembered" too much. Even converting the last frame before and the first frame after into corner frames did not prevent it. Fortunately only orientation was affected.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2021, 11:21:52 am by exile »
Logged

johnar

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 992
  • Make it, Move it--Give it Life
    • View Profile
    • youtube vids
Re: animating phoneme morph targets
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2021, 08:51:42 am »

I agree the phoneme editor works very well. And behaves really well during copying, pasting and editing already existing phoneme keys


Default mouth shape is best open, for exactly the reasons you gave.
Quote
the transitions are smoother and it covers up slightly inexact timing
(maybe not quite as open as peters tho)


 I had a character with no teeth, and needed them for 'f, and s and other 'teethy' mouth shapes, so i made some teeth seperately, (new object), and added them to one of the figures headbones. (one that didn't move).
 Then added morph targets to new teeth. Teeth Morphs were 'top up, bottom down, top out and bottom out.
 As you will know, morph targets work both ways. Ie: open mouth morph can be used as closed mouth by going into negative values. Doesn't always suffice, but does more often than not.
 So positive values raised teeth in 'top teeth up morph', and negative values lowered the top teeth. (kept things 'simpler')
 Top teeth out was handy for 'F', because the teeth needed to poke out a bit to cover bottom lip. (a mixture of topteeth down and topteeth out)
 It meant some extra morphing in scene mode, having to animate teeth seperately from mouth, but saved me losing all the existing morph targets i'd made, if i'd added teeth to the actual head object.
 A tongue can also be added later in the same way. A seperate object added to the figure, and with it's own morphs, tongue up etc. I found 'tongue up worked best with just the front half of the tongue curling up. Then i had a morph target called 'tongue lift, which moved the whole tongue up and down.
 Theres so much can be done with morph targets.
  PeterTalking head is looking, and sounding, really good, and the more you keep at it, the better will be the results.
 Good one exile, keep up the good work.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2021, 08:53:20 am by johnar »
Logged
%
Pages: [1] 2