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Author Topic: New User -- Rig Question --- Why is whole object moving, not just the target ?  (Read 3913 times)

mikespitzer

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Hello gang

New member here .

Been reading Ian Ross's book and the PDF manuals and practicing tutorials before asking this question
But I am stumped.

I have a Dinosaur with the early beginning stages of Rigging and Skinning with Bone Influencing --- starting with legs

When I test the motion by bending joints, the RIGHT side of the body works properly at each joint (hip, knee, ankle)

But when trying to rotate the same bones on LEFT side of the body, the ankle works properly
BUT ... the entire object (Dinosaur figure) rotates when testing the hip and knee rotations

I thought both sides were created the same way .... so not sure why left side and right side are behaving differently

I have looked at my bone settings, skinning, influencing - but I must be missing some setting or detail that has the LEFT side of body effectively "fused together, -- but the RIGHT side working as intended (so far )

I have attached the ANI file to see if somebody can spot the error

Thanks

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ianross

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Hi Mike, firstly well done on your T-Rex model bone influence, it is a very good first attempt.
The problem being you have not added any bones to the upper body/ head and tail.
May I suggest you start again but this time add bones to the head main torso and tail, rather than use influence please use weight painting see page 169.
Please review my T Rex with weight painting in the picture 2.
Any problems please get back to me.
Good luck 8)
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mikespitzer

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Ian Ross

Thank you, I will try that.

But just so I understand what the software is doing better.....although  head and torso skeleton is not yet added....what is wrong with the existing  bones that cause all the joints to bend proper on right leg....but the hip and thigh on left leg is not flexing mesh but is instead rotating the whole figure like it is a central root bone?
Thanks
« Last Edit: May 11, 2022, 06:43:25 am by mikespitzer »
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ianross

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Mike you need to add more bones and use weight painting, this will help resolve your problem regarding the unwanted rotating movements.
You are making good progress, keep going.

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mikespitzer

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Ian,

So to be sure I understand --- what is happening here is without the other bones in the body and skinning / weighting regions defined, something about the shape of the object is confusing the software on the left side when it "grabs the mesh" and rotates?

Your advice would indicate a full skeleton must be built before beginning any skinning

My idea of "testing each small section" as I went along may be fine in theory....but does not work in real practice

Thanks for your help --- hope the questions don't seem odd -- but I like to understand both the HOW and the WHY of things work.

Side Note -- at my age (59) , I have no plans to become a 3D animation expert and get a job in Hollywood making modern movies (smile)
Though that would be appealing if I was just now 16 or so -- starting out in life.

My interest in reading your book .. and a textbook on 3D animation production .... was simply to get a basic knowledge of how the process works from a blank computer screen --- thru live footage and green screening ---- to chrome key and composites to a final "Jurassic Park" style movie blending real and animation together on the screen.
And thus have a better appreciation of the process.

I figure my "goal" will be to make a short 1-2 minute movie of something like me facing a dinosaur in a wooded area, then run towards the camera with the dinosaur chasing


Or something like that which would pretty much incorporate all the steps from

Modeling - texturing --rigging -- animation sequence -- chrome key -- live footage -- lighting - rendering ---etc...

Perhaps basic and simplistic --- but at least then I will have a better understanding of the whole process when I am watching a big budget movie

Thanks again

« Last Edit: May 11, 2022, 09:39:00 am by mikespitzer »
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Steve

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You can add additional bones to the model when you're using Influence Volumes. Everything is recomputed each time that you change the bone structure.

As for the main part of the model rotating when you move the right hip or upper leg bone, I think that's a bug in Anim8or. The model is attached to the bone named "trex" and so any points not inside of an influence volume should not move when a child bone is rotated. The right side works properly (except it looks like the influence volume for the bone RightHip2 isn't large enough to include two inner points). The left side should work the same. I'll look into this.
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mikespitzer

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Steve -

I don't know if this makes a difference , but as per your recent email --I have been using Version 1.01 from 2017
I was not currently using the latest build.

I found Anim8or while doing a search for 3D animation for beginners and it seems the Search took me to a link for the that older version link on the main news page.

Tonight I will download the latest build and re-test also.

Thanks
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Steve

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Mike, I think the latest version still has the same problem :(
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mikespitzer

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Hey the newbie here makes his first useful contribution ...stumbled upon a small problem.
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johnar

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Hi,
 I'm using  version 1.01 1402 dev.  17-may-21.
 Went into figure mode, deleted t.rex object. (model), added t.rex again, for a fresh start on skinning.
 The left leg is now working fine, using influence volumes and also with weight painting.
 
 Try removing t.rex model from figure mode and adding again. (that does mean skinning again as well)
 If that doesn't make a difference, try a different build of anim8or. It defineately works ok with the build i'm using.
 
 Open new version of anim8or. Import figure from your current anim8or file. Delete the t.rex model in figure mode, (keep rig), then add t.rex object again. (figure mode -> build -> add object )
  Whether you choose to skin with influence volumes or painted weights is your choice.
 Influence volumes can be easier with gr8 results, painted weights allows attaching the model to the rig with more pinpoint precision. (literally, can attach one point/vertex at a time.  Can be really handy)

 Good luck with your video plan. Sounds good. ;)

 Edit: make sure that  you add t.rex object to the middle bone, protruding from the root.
 When i opened your project, it had the fault you've shown.  I fixed it Using the same version i opened it with originally, so rather than being an anim8or fault, perhaps you 'accidentally did something not quite right'.
 It happens. ;)
« Last Edit: May 30, 2022, 06:28:33 am by johnar »
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mikespitzer

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Johnar

Are you saying that the Object was attached to the wrong bone to begin with ?

Thanks
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johnar

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 No, but maybe ?

 Does opening your file with different builds of Anim8or fix the problem?

 I opened your file, the problem was happening.
 I did what i've described above, and then it wasn't happening anymore. (using the same version which i originally opened it with)

   Just observations, and a way to fix it. :)

 Edit: after further examination, i'm inclined to say yes, you have added t.rex to the wrong bone.
 To check this, i opened your file, and in figure mode, front view,  turned on the skinning button and selected the figure, so that the volume influences are showing. Then i double clicked on the big bone above the root, (through trex object), and, using the 'named com editor' which popped up,  changed the skinning method to weight painting. That showed the different colours of bones and influences on the object.
 The big bone above the root is red. The 'unskinned' t.rex object is purple. (it should be red)
 The left upper leg bone of t.rex is purple. This shows that the object is not attached to a red bone, but a purple one. Ie: left upper leg, which is where the problem occurs.
 Never mind buddy. It happens. ;)
 
« Last Edit: June 02, 2022, 03:27:42 am by johnar »
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mikespitzer

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Thank you very much for the detailed reply -- it puts me on the right path
Time to rebuild
Thanks
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Steve

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I've finally found the cause of the whole t-rex model rotating when you rotate the right hip and upper leg. I'm working on a fix. Stay tuned...

#101-056 - Points with total weight of 0.0 can follow the wrong bone's orientation.
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Steve

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I've posted a fix for this problem:

v1.01.1403, August 29, 2022: https://www.anim8or.com/download/preview/files/animcl1403.zip

Give it a try and let me know how it works!
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